HTML 3.0 and the base tag proposal (was bookmark)

Dave Hollander (dmh@hpsgml.fc.hp.com)
Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:18:47 -0600


Message-Id: <199507261918.AA159006333@hpsgml.fc.hp.com>
To: www-html@w3.org, www-talk@w3.org
Subject: HTML 3.0 and the base tag proposal (was bookmark)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:18:47 -0600
From: Dave Hollander <dmh@hpsgml.fc.hp.com>


Hello,

As I understand this process, proposals are supposed to be posted to
this mail list and a rough consensus reached. I have seen many issues
not receive sufficient attention to reach consensus, this proposal
resurfaces one of them. Please read the proposal and respond, either
to the list or to me and I will summarize.

_____________________________________________________________________

PROPOSED Change to HTML 3.0:

I would like to suggest either:

	The BASE element allows the document itself to identify the most    | 
	effective URL to be used to refer to the document. The base element |
	may be used in situations in which the document may be read out of  |
	context. All and only URLs within the document that are in a        |
	"partial" form are to be considered relative to this base address.  |
	The default base address is the URL used to retrieve the document.

or
	...leave base as is and add...

   	The Bookmark element permits the document itself to identify the 
	most effective URL to be used to refer to this document. Bookmark
	elements may be used to establish a prefered URL when a document 
	may be reached through multiple URLs. The default bookmark address 
	is the base address.


I prefer the second, but would accept the former if tag proliferation
is the issue. Also, this can not be done at the HTTP level because there
is no reliable way to communicate the bookmark element to the server except
through the document.

WHY?

On July 10, Ben Adida proposed [2]: 
	I'm thinking that a useful new tag could be something like :
	<bookmark href="http://foo.bar.com">
	which would tell the browser to bookmark that URL instead of
	the one in the actual Document URL box at the top of the
	screen.... What do you think ??

to which Shel Kaphan replied:
   "do you really want to give server operators control over your hotlist?"

Yes I do. Server operators know what server facilities are available, not 
the browser user. This does not mean that the server operator can place 
things in the hotlist, just inform the browser of the most effective URL to
use. I can find no other comments, nor any response from the primary html 
3.0 developers. 

As detailed in [4], I am using a jumpstation on www.hp.com to establish 
long standing indirect names for use in links and hotlists. The only means 
I can find help readers use this "go" facility is the base tag. According to 
"HyperText Markup Language Specification 3.0" [1].

	The BASE element allows the URL of the document itself to be recorded 
	in situations in which the document may be read out of context. URLs 
	within the document may be in a "partial" form relative to this base 
	address. The default base address is the URL used to retrieve the 
	document. 

This statement is not sufficient to tell information providers how to 
manage what URLS others know their document by. Nor does this make it
clear for browser developers what should be displayed as the location
of this document or if it is legal to use the base URL for non-relative
URLs. I just had this debate in private with one browser developer who
insists my usage is "non-standard" and should not be supported.

Should the base allow the URL of a document to be recorded in situations 
where the document may be know in context (aka no imagemaps) but available 
through multiple methods?



Regards,
Dave Hollander


References:
1. <a href="http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html3/dochead.html"> 
	The Head Element and Related Elements </a> (html 3.0)

2. <a href="http://gummo.stanford.edu/hypermail/www-talk-1995q3/0021.html"> 
	a BOOKMARK tag ?? </a>

3. <a href="http://gummo.stanford.edu/html/hypermail/www-html-1995q2/0234.html">
	BASE processing by browsers, Grzegorz Staniak </a>

4. <a href="http://gummo.stanford.edu/hypermail/www-talk-1995q2/0435.html"> 
	Browser Displayed URL </a>

5. <a href="http://gummo.stanford.edu/hypermail/www-talk-1995q2/0439.html"> 
	Re: Browser Displayed URL </a>


_________________________________________________________________________
 Dave Hollander                          Hewlett-Packard
 Internet Technology Program Manager     3404 East Harmony Road, MS. 6U10
 dmh@corp.hp.com         		 Fort Collins, Colorado  80525
 Access HP - http://www.hp.com           970-229-3192 
_________________________________________________________________________