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Re: Navigation Lists

From: Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 22:07:41 +0200
Message-ID: <4111420D.5080907@annevankesteren.nl>
To: "R. Douglas Ezell" <rdouglas@iglou.com>
Cc: www-html-editor@w3.org

> After all, a validating XHTML 2.0 document could contain the entire
> contents of the w3c.org within a single li element.

What is specifically wrong with that? I know a site for example[1] that 
has a FORM element embedded in a LI element. Some people may say it is 
not very useful, but it is inventive and there is no other way of doing 
this if the contetns of the LI element were restricted in any way.


> 2. Do you know of any work for specialized css selectors and rules
> for the nl element? There needs to be a way for designers to specify
> the direction and alignment of a nl element's pop-up menu on visual
> user agents, or the element will surely die. If they only drop down
> and to the left, designers will have no other option than to use
> scripting to modify this behavior, and all we will have gained are a
> few new elements with which to apply the standard DHTML menu creation
> techniques already in use.

I don't see the point you are trying to make here. Why are special CSS 
selectors needed? A List Apart has for example tutorials on vertical[2] 
and horizontal[3] dropdown menus. Perfectly structured using some JS and 
CSS workarounds to work around limitations of certain browsers.

Since XHTML 2.0 was never meant to be backwards compatible you probably 
won't need scripting at all in newer browsers.


> 3. Will the w3c actually place sufficient requirements on the
> behavior and other implementation details to help assure that
> navigation lists can be navigated with mice, keyboards, and other
> means? I dread that navigation lists will become anathema due to lack
> of adequate conformance requirements.

Why exactly? I think that the web author is responsible for this by 
making sure his lists are using both ':hover' and ':focus' for example.


> 4. Will the w3c actually place sufficient requirements on the
> behavior and other implementation details to help assure that
> navigation lists do not become ugly and inflexible widgets? I dread
> that navigation lists will become anathema due to lack of adequate
> conformance requirements.

There are multiple sites that have implemented the solutions A List 
Apart provided[2][3] successfully, the only thing XHTML 2.0 does is to 
create a specific element for navigation menus instead of the UL element 
everybody (who is aware of standards and such) is using now.

This will make it much easier for browsers to skip the navigation and 
head straight for the content. Search engines can distinquish between a 
normal list of links and the site navigation. Et cetera.


[1]<http://mezzoblue.com/>
[2]<http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/>
[3]<http://www.alistapart.com/articles/horizdropdowns/>


-- 
  Anne van Kesteren
  <http://annevankesteren.nl/>
Received on Wednesday, 4 August 2004 16:08:24 UTC

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