W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html-editor@w3.org > April to June 2000

RE: Design proposal: Bidi support in layout

From: Martin J. Duerst <duerst@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:49:24 +0900
Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.J.20000419143436.030ec8f0@sh.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp>
To: Jonathan Rosenne <rosenne@qsm.co.il>, ehud@unix.simonwiesel.co.il, Erik van der Poel <erik@netscape.com>, Mati Allouche <matial@il.ibm.com>
Cc: mozilla-layout@mozilla.org, mozilla-i18n@mozilla.org, www-html-editor@w3.org
At 00/04/18 15:45 +0200, Jonathan Rosenne wrote:
>Unfortunately, HTML 4 is not defined this way.
>For the IMG element, the dir refers to the
>ALT text, not to the image.

Well, I think it's better to say that it's not defined.
But there is something relevant in CSS2, at
file:///C|/Tech%20Report/css2/visuren.html#propdef-unicode-bidi:

 >>>>
In this process, non-textual entities such as images are treated
as neutral characters, unless their 'unicode-bidi' property has a
value other than 'normal', in which case they are treated as strong
characters in the 'direction' specified for the element.
<<<<

Applying this back to HTML, this would mean that a 'dir' on
<img> means that the image is treated as a character with
strong directionality. 'dir' would also apply to the alt text.

If there is a need for two different directions for the image
itself and the alt text, then that shows that there is a problem
with free-form text in attributes. That should be converted to
elements. There is already a solution for this in HTML4,
namely the <object> tag.


>As far as I understand, it is similar for all non-text object.

Yes.


>Maybe this issue should be clarified by W3C.

Well, we don't want to stuff more presentation-related things
into HTML, but want to have it separated. But bidi is at the
boundary of semantics and presentation, so adding some text
similar to that in CSS2 to HTML4 might make sense. I'm
forwarding it to the editor list.

Regards,   Martin.


>Mati and Martin, please may we have your opinions.
>
>Jony
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ehud Karni [mailto:ehud@unix.simonwiesel.co.il]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 11:33 AM
> > To: Jonathan Rosenne; Erik van der Poel
> > Cc: mozilla-layout@mozilla.org; mozilla-i18n@mozilla.org
> > Subject: Re: Design proposal: Bidi support in layout
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:42:54 +0200, Jonathan Rosenne 
> <rosenne@qsm.co.il> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think that a non-text object imbedded within a block item should be 
> treated
> > as a neutral
> > > by the bidi algorithm.
> >
> > A non text object should specify it is own Right-Left property. An
> > example is graphic that is a Hebrew word (or a real graphic that
> > should be aligned next to the Hebrew text) in a bidi sentence.
> > For example see: www.yellowpages.co.il (they use visual and no wrap
> > to ensure the alignment currently).
> >
> > Ehud.
> >
> >
> > --
> >  @@@@@@ @@@ @@@@@@ @    @   Ehud Karni  Simon & Wiesel  Insurance agency
> >      @    @      @  @@  @   Tel: +972-3-6212-757    Fax: +972-3-6292-544
> >      @    @ @    @ @  @@    (USA)  Fax  and  voice  mail:  1-815-5509341
> >      @    @ @    @ @    @        Better     Safe     Than     Sorry
> >  http://www.simonwiesel.co.il    mailto:ehud@unix.simonwiesel.co.il
Received on Wednesday, 19 April 2000 02:35:01 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:16:46 GMT