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RE: Select with open selection

From: Klotz, Leigh <Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:10:41 -0700
Message-ID: <E254B0A7E0268949ABFE5EA97B7D0CF401F9741A@usa7061ms01.na.xerox.net>
To: "Rafael Benito" <rbenito@satec.es>, <www-forms@w3.org>
With open selections, XForms doesn't define a way to associate a label
with the values.
In http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/slice8.html#ui-selectMany it says
"The form control should then allow free data entry, as described in 
8.1.2 The input Element
<http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/slice8.html#ui-input> . The form control
may permit multiple values to be entered through free entry."
I believe free data entry means entering the value directly, and if the
my:flavors is an xf:listItems type, then you can enter a space-separated
list of values into the typein area directly.
Your example seems targeted towards allowing the user to enter data into
a shadow-DOM copy of the choices/items for the select, and associating
that with an specific label.
Certainly you can present the select control with a typein area, and
that typein area would have a text node of some sort associated with it
in the display DOM, but that is an implementation detail and shouldn't
be part of the form markup.  This is what "combo-boxes" do.
I was pointing out that for many use cases, the "Google Suggest" or
"Delicious Tags" type presentation is more useful, and its semantics can
be captured with open selection and itemset.

From: Rafael Benito [mailto:rbenito@satec.es] 
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:00 PM
To: Klotz, Leigh; www-forms@w3.org
Subject: RE: Select with open selection

Apart from the name of the attribute mistyped, I still see two problems
with your comment:
    - you lose the ability to "label" the open selection, which is
useful in itself
    - I do not quite see how to handle the situation with more than one
open selection. The Recommendation requires multiplicity.


	De: www-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org]
En nombre de Klotz, Leigh
	Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 18:56
	Para: Rafael Benito; www-forms@w3.org
	Asunto: RE: Select with open selection
	I don't think the 1.0 Recommendation requires additional markup
in the choices or itemset to allow the presentation of a direct
user-input area.
	The only markup necessary is in the select element itself:
<select ref="my:flavors" enumeration="open">...</select>.
	I  do think that the attribute @enumeration should give your
implementation enough information to know to give the user a choice
between the choices/item and the direct user-input.  How your
presentation chooses to indicate that these are alternatives is up to
you.  One mechanism common on desktop/display/keyboard implementations
is the "combo-box".
	As an alternative to "combo-boxes," in the past couple of years,
a more flexible presentation has been used in some web sites: instead of
using a pull-down menu, these sites use a type-in field, and use the
choices (or itemset) to provide auto-completion, yet still allow
alternate data to be entered. In HTML4, this requires JavaScript, but in
XForms, I believe that it is just the @enumeration='open' attribute.
	Please see my sample at 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2006May/0122.html>  and
think about using it to present your select example below (though with
enumeration="open" and no empty value item).
	There would be additional markup required in the form itself
(events, another instance, etc.) if you wanted to have the set of
available choices depend on what had been typed in the field so far and
change incrementally, but for your example with its static set of
choices, just @enumeration='open' should be enough.
	Thank you,

	From: www-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org]
On Behalf Of Rafael Benito
	Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:10 AM
	To: www-forms@w3.org
	Subject: Select with open selection



	Xforms 1.0 Recommendation in Sections 8.1.10 and 8.1.11 states
for selection="open" that "Free entry text is handled the same as form
control input 8.1.2 The input Element, possibly in multiplicity."

	IMO, id does not state clearly what the actual XML syntaxis is
for this situation and should be clarified. In our implementation we
assume that an empty value element means that the option is open, and
then, treat it as an input element for presentation.


	For example, <select ref="my:flavors">
















	                                    <label>Your choice</label>





	would allow the user to enter "mango"


	Rafael Benito

(image/gif attachment: Logo_sistemas.gif)

Received on Thursday, 29 June 2006 20:11:15 UTC

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