W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-forms@w3.org > August 2006

Re: Can toggle@case or case@selected be calculated?

From: T.V Raman <raman@google.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:49:28 -0700
Message-ID: <17638.17400.303552.281739@retriever.corp.google.com>
To: u.n.l@gmx.net
Cc: raman@google.com, boyerj@ca.ibm.com, www-forms@w3.org


AHA --- I knew that once in a way someone would agree with me on
AVTs:-)



Ulrich Nicolas Lissť writes:
 > Yes, I'd prefer to use AVTs rather than to introduce new markup which 
 > tends to bloat.
 > 
 > I even don't see a Pandora's box of processing questions open as John 
 > stated: It should be clearly stated when these AVTs are evaluated and in 
 > which context (like it is for any other XPath expression in XForms).
 > 
 > AVTs occurring in non-XForms-markup are not the XForms processor's cup 
 > of tea. The latter might be dissatisfying to form authors attempting to 
 > use AVTs in XHTML markup but they can't use XPath expressions there too. 
 > So this is no point against introducing AVTs to XForms in my eyes.
 > 
 > Regards,
 > Uli.
 > 
 > T.V Raman wrote:
 > > 
 > > I've said this too many times in the last few years, so once more
 > > wont hurt :-)
 > > 
 > > Re: dynamic attributes -- they're a good thing. I believe the way
 > > they should be introduced into technologies like XForms and XHTML
 > > is via Attribute Value Templates e.g. <foo bar="{expression}"/>
 > > -- rather than on a case-by-case basis into a given XML
 > > vocabulary.
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Ulrich Nicolas Lissť writes:
 > >  > 
 > >  > John,
 > >  > 
 > >  > I just thought of having dynamic attribute(s) on xf:dispatch too. I 
 > >  > think this issue already popped up on the list but frankly speaking I'm 
 > >  > just to lazy to search the archives right now.
 > >  > 
 > >  > However, I think it would be most useful having either @name or @target 
 > >  > or both attributes being computed by XPath expressions. I think @target 
 > >  > is the more interesting case, just like for xf:setfocus/@control and 
 > >  > xf:toggle/@case.
 > >  > 
 > >  > Best,
 > >  > Uli.
 > >  > 
 > >  > John Boyer wrote:
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Hi Ulrich,
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Could you send me a quick note, please, to tell me a little more about 
 > >  > > what you want to see for xf:dispatch?
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > However, I did understand the part about precedence, and yes it will be 
 > >  > > included as we faced the same precedence rule issue when we added 
 > >  > > resource as a child of submission.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Cheers,
 > >  > > John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
 > >  > > Senior Product Architect/Research Scientist
 > >  > > Co-Chair, W3C XForms Working Group
 > >  > > Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
 > >  > > IBM Victoria Software Lab
 > >  > > E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com  http://www.ibm.com/software/
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > *Ulrich Nicolas Lissť <u.n.l@gmx.net>*
 > >  > > Sent by: www-forms-request@w3.org
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 08/18/2006 04:25 AM
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 	
 > >  > > To
 > >  > > 	John Boyer/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA
 > >  > > cc
 > >  > > 	Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>, www-forms@w3.org
 > >  > > Subject
 > >  > > 	Re: Can toggle@case or case@selected be calculated?
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 	
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > John,
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > please include <xf:dispatch/> too. And - just for completeness - don't
 > >  > > forget the precedence stuff (bindings ruling out static attributes ?).
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > However, I don't like the sub-markup approach that much. I'd prefer a
 > >  > > @value attribute.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Regards,
 > >  > > Uli.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > John Boyer wrote:
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > I generally like the type of approach Eric describes in which we use a
 > >  > >  > sub-element with a value attribute, where the subelement takes the same
 > >  > >  > name as the attribute it controls.
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > I like it better than ATVs because ATVs open a Pandora's box of
 > >  > >  > processing questions, whereas the subelement/@value idea allows us to
 > >  > >  > add functionality precisely where it's needed in a way that is easy for
 > >  > >  > form authors to grasp and for design environments to recognize.
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > In this case, though, my proposal on today's telecon was to do a
 > >  > >  > spec-ready version of the more specific solution I posted earlier to
 > >  > >  > this list, which was to make available a subelement/@value solution for
 > >  > >  > setting the case of a toggle action and the control of a setfocus, e.g.
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > <toggle>
 > >  > >  >    <case value="concat('case-', some/node)"/>
 > >  > >  > </toggle>
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > <setfocus>
 > >  > >  >    <control value="concat('control-', some/node)"/>
 > >  > >  > </setfocus>
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > Based on having received the action item to do so on today's telecon, I
 > >  > >  > will be making that spec-ready text available to the WG shortly, but the
 > >  > >  > solution is so easy that I would not be surprised to see implementer
 > >  > >  > feedback even before I finish the formal spec work!  Partly because
 > >  > >  > XForms just needs to be able to do this (whereas there's a whole
 > >  > >  > Pandora's box of issues that this solution happily avoids).
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > Best regards,
 > >  > >  > John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
 > >  > >  > Senior Product Architect/Research Scientist
 > >  > >  > Co-Chair, W3C XForms Working Group
 > >  > >  > Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
 > >  > >  > IBM Victoria Software Lab
 > >  > >  > E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com  http://www.ibm.com/software/
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > *Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>*
 > >  > >  > Sent by: www-forms-request@w3.org
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > 08/16/2006 11:34 AM
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >                  
 > >  > >  > To
 > >  > >  >                  www-forms@w3.org
 > >  > >  > cc
 > >  > >  >                  
 > >  > >  > Subject
 > >  > >  >                  Re: Can toggle@case or case@selected be calculated?
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >                  
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > Klotz, Leigh wrote:
 > >  > >  >  > Two issues come to mind:
 > >  > >  >  > 1. Currently @selected it's defined as an xsd:boolean (an enumeration
 > >  > >  > of the strings "true", "false", "1", and "0".
 > >  > >  >  > Unfortunately, "true" isn't an XPath expression that evaluates to
 > >  > >  > "true"; that would have to be "true()", so there's not the smooth
 > >  > >  > upgrade path that it seems like there might be.
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > One possible direction, syntactically, would be to use a nested element,
 > >  > >  > as we may do for xforms:submission in 1.1. E.g.:
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > <xforms:case>
 > >  > >  >   <xforms:selected value="instance('my-instance')/my-value = 3"/>
 > >  > >  >   ...
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > or something like this. Ideally I would prefer attribute value templates
 > >  > >  >  (post-1.1)but as you point out there is a discrepancy between 'true'
 > >  > >  > and true().
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > -Erik
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  > --
 > >  > >  > Orbeon - XForms Everywhere:
 > >  > >  > http://www.orbeon.com/blog/
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > >  >
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > -- 
 > >  > > Ulrich Nicolas Lissť
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > -- 
 > >  > Ulrich Nicolas Lissť
 > >  > 
 > > 
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > Ulrich Nicolas Lissť

-- 
Best Regards,
--raman

Title:  Research Scientist      
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Received on Friday, 18 August 2006 22:49:39 GMT

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