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Re: AJAX vs. Xforms

From: Erik Bruchez <erik@bruchez.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:06:01 +0200
Message-ID: <435E57E9.1060404@bruchez.org>
To: www-forms@w3.org

Rafael Benito wrote:

 > AJAX (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML) architectures are attracting
 > a lot of attention from the Web developer community. Some features,
 > like requesting to a server a piece of XML to update the UI without
 > refreshing the whole browser window, that make AJAX to be gaining
 > recognition, are also present in the Xforms Recommendation. However,
 > it seems that Xforms adoption is evolving at a much lower rate than
 > AJAX. I wonder for the reasons that are causing this to happen and
 > what the Xforms community should be doing to more strongly push
 > Xforms into the web development arena.
 > Any ideas or comments on this issue?


Thanks for asking this question, as it is extremely relevant.

I respectfully and partially disagree with Jason's reply that Ajax and
XForms are totally different beasts. Yes, of course, they are
different in many ways. But I believe what is important is what people
are actually trying to do with Ajax, namely provide interfaces which:

1. Are snappier, by avoiding full page reloads and using Javascript to
    update the current page (by updating the DOM). Functions performed
    include: handling repeating items, showing and hiding parts of a
    page, cool widgets, doing live validation, etc.

2. Can communicate in the background with a server by exchanging XML,
    therefore persisting client data, retrieving off-client data, etc.

XForms provides both #1 and #2:

1. Especially with a full client-side OR an Ajax-based hybrid
    client-server implementation, you clearly get snappier interfaces
    which can also handle repeating items, showing and hiding parts of
    the page, validation, etc. The "cool widgets" part is not mandated
    by XForms, but such widgets can be provided by an XForms

2. Using XForms submissions with replace="instance", you achieve
    calling XML services from your XForms page, which is just an
    excellent high-level abstraction of the XmlHttpRequest object used
    by most people today to do Ajax.

So in my opinion, it is fair to say that both the Ajax technique and
XForms have shared end goals. In fact, you can see an Ajax-based
XForms implementation like Orbeon PresentationServer's new XForms
engine (currently in beta, and I remind you that it is open source!)
as a high-level platform to do Ajax. And this is extraordinarily
powerful, because Ajax is plain hard: you have to choose a toolkit,
probably become a master of Javascript and DOM, etc. Instead, you
could learn XForms, which is higher-level, declarative, and in the end
more productive for the developer.

As Mark said, it is up to us in the XForms community to evangelize and
tell people that XForms is a reality today, that it does much of what
Ajax does, and that it is likely to be much more productive than bare
metal Ajax. We should also not neglect the "cool" factor: we should
work on telling people that XForms is really cool for their web apps,
not just a boring tool for enterprise data entry.

My personal opinion is that yes, the WG is going way too slowly, which
is unfortunately typical of much at W3C. But the 1.0 spec has been out
for two years now, and what developers really need is not a spec, but
good implementations which are as interoperable as possible, and good
examples. Several implementations are already out there or coming
soon. XForms support in Mozilla is coming up. More implementations
will create demand for an improved and richer XForms
specification. But implementations and good examples are essential.

Based on a recent survey, many people code Ajax by hand and do not yet
use libraries much, see:


The bottom line is that consolidation in the Ajax world has not
happened at all, so XForms has an excellent opportunity. In short I
think that the future of XForms is going to be bright if the current
XForms community plays well.


PS: I refer you to this email for information about OPS:

Received on Tuesday, 25 October 2005 16:06:06 UTC

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