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RE: XForms Links, Links, Links - Free Books And Much More

From: Sikora, Gary <gjsikora@progeny.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:14:27 -0400
Message-ID: <390F231507E5CC4996ACACE92CEC9CCA228185@es3.progeny.net>
To: "Joern Turner" <joern.turner@web.de>
Cc: "Gerald Bauer" <luxorxul@yahoo.ca>, <www-forms@w3.org>

Joern,

You have my respect. I honor you and your colleagues for your XForms drive, accomplishments and assume you aspire towards quality like we all do. I like your characterization of "open-source" and "commercial" ... "closed" just has a intended bad "connotations"-)

Please, keep the drive!
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Joern Turner [mailto:joern.turner@web.de]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 19:52
To: Sikora, Gary
Cc: Gerald Bauer; www-forms@w3.org
Subject: Re: XForms Links, Links, Links - Free Books And Much More


Hello Gary,

Sikora, Gary wrote:

> Gerald,
> 
> I disagree with classifying FormsPlayer as a "Closed Project", why do
> we have to throw negative cogitation. Some efforts require revenue to
> develop a fully functional, quality product. Garage developed
> products for the most part have not shown life-cycles in which
> enterprises are willing to rely their success on - a System
> Engineering risk mitigation process outcome.  
just cause you mention Chiba ...

the project has more than 3,5 years lifetime now. more than many 
companies exist ;)

Open Source doesn't mean professional backup, support and even funding. 
without the help of sponsors that financed the work it would never have 
evolved that far.

> You can't even say that
> FormsPlayer is proprietary because it uses an open standard, XForms.
> If you want to be fair you can say "Licensed", it doesn't try to
> influence the audience. Some solutions are free and others are not
> ... both are good and have their place on this planet.
agree with you - both have their place.

> 
> I think it also needs to be made clear within this forum what these
> various solutions provide, not just what percentage of the XForms
> specification, but where they are executed, client or server-side. In
> the past we have heard that solutions like Chiba and FormFaces are
> "server-side" solutions and Deng and FormsPlayer are "client-side"
> solutions ... this is not good enough for the "server-side" solution
> categorization. Chiba interprets the XForms document and processes
> the bindings server-side. This means server round-trips are required
> for validation, relevance, etc. ... drastically inhibiting the user's
> experience, much worst than JavaScript applications we experience
> today. On the other hand, FormFaces interprets the XForms document
> server-side and processes the bindings client-side providing a user
> experience close to that of an application. Chiba is free and
> FormFaces is available via license ... there is a reason.

happy to have an occasion to clarify a common misunderstanding about Chiba:

it is true that Chiba evolved and still evolves as a typical server-side 
web-appication and delivers un-scripted html output to the client in its 
standard distribution *but*...

- the webapp part of Chiba is meant/considered (and always was) only a 
sample integration of the actual XForms processor sitting inside of it. 
The processor itself is done in Java and therefore can be integrated in 
a wide variety of environments including client-side. Actually an applet 
integration of Chiba (called 'Convex') running inside a browser is 
already running and will be released soon.

- Open Source doesn't mean there's no professional support. Chibacon was 
founded by both project admins to exactly provide this support and offer 
integration services and sure to further sponsor and evolve the project.

- and sure Open Source doesn't mean 'without license'. There's a license 
but it is free and open.

- there's room enough for many XForms solutions. After working all this 
time with XForms my belief in it has even grown. The Spec authors have 
gathered some wonderfull ideas with more being on the way and there will 
be still much research work left for many developers to bring it to its 
full potential.

 From my view Open Source and commercial offerings are not at all 
contradictory nor does neither say anything about the delivered quality 
(i've seen projects with a lot of commercial backing still delivering 
bad software).

Don't get this wrong: i don't want to promote Chiba against FormFaces 
but think we should althoghter build better XForms solutions so that the 
technology itself may become a success - in favor of really proprietary 
(cause non-standard) solutions like InfoPath and Adobe XDF.

with full respect for your work,


Joern Turner
- Chiba Project Admin -

> 
> Very respectfully, Gary Sikora FormFace project manager
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Bauer
> [mailto:luxorxul@yahoo.ca] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:17 To:
> www-forms@w3.org Subject: XForms Links, Links, Links - Free Books And
> Much More
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I've updated the XForms link directory and you can you find the
> latest version online @ http://xul.sourceforge.net/xforms.html
> 
> Thanks to Mark Birbeck and T. V. Raman for pointing out new links
> such as
> 
> * Using XForms to Build A Weather Web Services Client
> 
> http://www.codeproject.com/html/fP-and-weather-ws.asp
> 
> * XForms: XML Powered Web Forms by T. V. Raman
> 
> http://safariexamples.informit.com/0321154991/book.html
> 
> * XForms At A Glance
> 
> http://almaden.ibm.com/u/tvraman/xforms/glance.pdf
> 
> 
> - Gerald
> 
> -------------------- Gerald Bauer Lopica - All Things Web Start | 
> http://lopica.sourceforge.net Web Start Forum               | 
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> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 25 August 2004 01:14:28 GMT

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