W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-forms@w3.org > February 2002

Re: forms

From: Paul Sagi <pksagi@start.com.au>
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:13:55 +0800
Message-ID: <B1515509482@i01sv4138.ids1.intelonline.com>
To: "DDennedy@digitalbang.com" <DDennedy@digitalbang.com>, "www-forms@w3.org" <www-forms@w3.org>
dan,

you state "There is nothing in XForms or even current HTML forms to
prevent a website from disclosing what information will be requested."
yes, BUT there should be a STANDARD that REQUIRES websites to disclose
what information will be requested, as well as allowing navigation
back and forth between the form pages, editing of the data entered
within the form, aborting the entry of data partway through the form
and returning to the form later to make corrections or additions to
the data entered.

paul

Original message from: "Dan Dennedy" <DDennedy@digitalbang.com>

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Thank you for your rant about forms; I am sympathetic.
Unfortunately, what you describe has little to do with technology esp.
XForms. There is nothing in XForms or even current HTML forms to
prevent a website from disclosing what information will be requested.
Forms processors can retain state if they choose. At least, many
e-commerce shopping carts retain state across sessions,
right?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: Paul Sagi [<A
HREF="mailto:pksagi@start.com.au">mailto:pksagi@start.com.au</A>]</FON
T>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:45 PM</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: www-forms@w3.org</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: forms</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> it should be possible to view an online form and
see what information</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> is requested, before filling out the form; rather
than fill out a</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> page, click on "next" or "continue," fill out the
next page... before</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> discovering what info will be requested. further,
it should be</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> possible</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> to interrupt filling out the form and return to it
later, preferably</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> at the point one left off, thus mimicking hardcopy.
until and unless</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> online forms conform to the characteristics i've
stated above, online</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> education, banking, ordering of merchandise and
other online</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> activities cannot and will not reach their
potential. many online</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> transactions are abandoned partway through. why?
it's those damn</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> online forms that require filling out of many
boxes, not allowing</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> proceeding to the next page until the form is
complete, not allowing</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> viewing the form before filling it out and not
allowing going back and</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> forth through the form.  those characteristics were
thought to be</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> great, force people to fill things out in an
orderly consistent way</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> and data is easy to obtain. but people resist
control and have</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> curiosity.  they also have lives outside filling
out forms, phones</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ringing, kids coming home from school, etc., that
demand they abandon</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> the forms for awhile, to return to them later.
people also want to be</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> able to make informed decisions, which they cannot
when information is</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> hidden in forms and cannot be accessed because they
have not completed</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> the previous page of the form. asking for
completion of a page of a</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> form before showing the next page of the form is
saying "i'll give you</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> some information if you'll first give me some
information." that flies</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> in the face of peoples' expectations about informed
consent and</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> informed choices. imagine the anger and frustration
of someone who</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> fills out 4 pages of forms only to find on the last
page that they are</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> required to provide information they consider
private and confidential</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> and don't want to give. what do they do? abandon
the transaction in</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> disgust and don't return to that website. they also
become reluctant</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> to deal with similar forms on other sites. once
bitten, twice shy.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Fertilise a mind - plant an idea.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>
__________________________________________________________________</FO
NT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Get your free Australian email account at <A
HREF="http://www.start.com.au">http://www.start.com.au</A></FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
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Received on Friday, 1 February 2002 22:14:27 GMT

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