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RE: [48 hour response please] Re: User understanding of what will be submitted by SUBMIT

From: Micah Dubinko <MDubinko@cardiff.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:31:33 -0700
Message-ID: <E840F0B7E6189547BDB91DA8BF2228AB28C582@csmail.cardiff.com>
To: "'Al Gilman'" <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, w3c-wai-pf@w3.org, Steven Pemberton <steven.pemberton@cwi.nl>, "'www-forms-editor@w3.org'" <www-forms-editor@w3.org>
Cc: wai-liaison@w3.org

Hi Al,

I'm an editor for XForms 1.0, but I'm writing here for myself only.

>[And it is not immediately obvious with this data model strength that this
document needs to say more.

I agree with this point. As long as you are satisfied that we meet your
functional requirements, no additional text should be necessary.

If you do wish to provide a short NOTE:, I would suggest placing it in the
section describing the "submit" form control. This section (8.8 in the Last
Call document [1]) has not significantly changed, so the Last Call text
provides good context information.



[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/slice8.html#ui-submit

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Gilman [mailto:asgilman@iamdigex.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 6:52 AM
To: w3c-wai-pf@w3.org; Steven Pemberton; www-forms-editor@w3.org
Cc: wai-liaison@w3.org
Subject: [48 hour response please] Re: User understanding of what will
be submitted by SUBMIT


[preliminary] This indeed looks on instant review as though it does meet the
requirement we posed.

PF:  Anyone see a flaw in this reasoning?  Please respond by this time
Friday if you 
see anything.


What is the baseline (draft) against which we should pose language-to-insert
as edits?  
It would appear that there have been enough changes so that we wouldn't know
how to 
say what needs to be said without being aware of the context in the section
where it goes.

[It may go in the section on host languages which we understand to be rather

[And it is not immediately obvious with this data model strength that this
needs to say more.  The next stop may be the DOM.]


At 09:10 AM 2002-06-26, Steven Pemberton wrote:
>Thanks for the message. We were actually expecting text to include in our
>forthcoming CR spec, as agreed on March 1st at the Cannes FtF.
>However, let me address your comments here:
>> Users need to know, when they are submitting a form, what information
>> are submitting.
>> The PF group has discussed several possible approaches:
>> 1. Requiring an explicit reference from each form control to the model
>> it is associated with. The principle is that this provides unambiguous
>> information in the DOM that assistive technologies (and simple adaptation
>> techniques) can access. See for example
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2002Feb/0110
>This requirement is already the case. If there is only one form, then the
>controls default to the only model. If there is more than one form, then
>controls must explicitely reference the model.
>> 2. Requiring an explicit container for a form, as in HTML, that does not
>> allow other forms to be contained. The principle is that this makes it
>> easy to identify the things that are being submitted - not requiring real
>> processing. The original proposal was made (Member only - need permission
>> make it public) in the PF meeting of 19 June 2002 - see logs at
>> http://www.w3.org/2002/06/19-pf-irc#T17-03-27
>This is also already the case, only maybe it wasn't clear. The form is
>actually the model. It identifies explicitely what is to be submitted on
><submission> element (was previously called <submitInfo>). If there are
>several forms, there are several models. If there are several different
>of submitting a form there are several <submission> elements. The <submit>
>form-control binds directly to a <submission> element in the model, so it
>trivial to find out from there what is being submitted. What is not trivial
>is to identify what is 'hidden' in old-HTML Forms parlance (i.e. what
>been displayed to the user up to that point), and how to present it all to
>the user in an easy-to-understand way (since it is just XML data).
>> 3. Placing a conformance requirement on User Agents that they offer the
>> possibility of reviewing what information is being provided in a given
>> and to "confirm or cancel" the submission. See "doing more" point 3 at
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10-TECHS/guidelines.html#tech-info-form-submit
>> See also (Member Only)
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2002JanMar/0254
>As I said, this is easy to do, though hard to format in a friendly way. So
>think we fulfil all your requirements, and we only need text from you that
>satisfies what you think needs to be said.
>Best wishes,
Received on Thursday, 27 June 2002 13:31:41 UTC

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