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RE: Documents not in scope for HTML-WG

From: Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:21:36 -0500
To: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Cc: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@opera.com>, "Michael(tm) Smith (mike@w3.org)" <mike@w3.org>, www-archive <www-archive@w3.org>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <1265667696.14954.47.camel@chacal>
Larry,

the scope of the charter says:
"This group will maintain and produce incremental revisions to the HTML
specification"
and the deliverables indicates:
"a language evolved from HTML4 for describing the semantics of documents
and applications on the World Wide Web."

I don't think it sets boundaries on what ought to be part of the HTML
specification. Whether the figure, video, or data-* is inside the HTML5
specification or in an adjunct doesn't make a difference. We've been
encourage on several occasion to modularize the HTML specification
itself in fact. The Context 2D API was part of the HTML5 specification
even before the creation of the charter and was accepted as such by the
Working Group. One can argue that the scope of the working group is too
broad or too vague, but that's the scope that has been approved by the
W3C and its Director. The charter itself is up for renewal (or extension
by the Director) at the end of the year. That's an opportunity we can
take to refine it.

Regards,

Philippe

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 13:32 -0800, Larry Masinter wrote:
> Thanks for the history! 
> 
> > The current state, as I understand it, is that the WG has concurrence by 
> > the Director for over two years to include Immediate Mode Graphics and 
> > canvas element.
> 
> I think your opinion is clear, and I disagree
> whatever discussions that took place then
> (whether it was a 'decision') covered the 
> current question, which is to FPWD Canvas 2D
> as a separate document in this working group.
> 
> As a courtesy to you, I've included you in the
> conversation, but I don't expect to convince
> you.
> 
> Larry
> --
> http://larry.masinter.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ruby [mailto:rubys@intertwingly.net] 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:56 AM
> To: Larry Masinter
> Cc: Anne van Kesteren; Michael(tm) Smith (mike@w3.org); Philippe Le Hegaret; www-archive; Maciej Stachowiak; Paul Cotton; Manu Sporny
> Subject: Re: Documents not in scope for HTML-WG
> 
> Larry Masinter wrote:
> > I know the working group decided that two years ago! 
> > 
> > However, Working Groups do not have the authority to change
> > their charter. The charter is established by the director
> > after discussion by the AC. The AC discussion explicitly
> > removed 2D graphics from the charter, if you look at the
> > record, there was an earlier draft of the charter with
> > 2D graphics that was explicitly removed.
> > 
> > So, it's fine. I'm not bringing this up in the working
> > group because the working group decision was clear.
> > 
> > I think it would be fine to update the charter to include
> > 2D Context as actually within scope if that's what the
> > working group proposes and the Director and AC agree.
> 
> That, too, was discussed.  See issue 38:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/38?changelog 
> 
> > I wouldn't object to that.
> > 
> > But the W3C AC actually discusses charters, comes to
> > agreement about scope, and the discussions about charter
> > scope are intense, careful, and the wordings chosen 
> > carefully. Companies decide whether or not to join a
> > working group and who to send as representatives based
> > on what the charter says. 
> > 
> > So my point stands: whether or not the working group
> > decided to include this material, it is out of scope
> > for the current charter.
> 
> The current state, as I understand it, is that the WG has concurrence by 
> the Director for over two years to include Immediate Mode Graphics and 
> canvas element.
> 
> > Larry
> > --
> > http://larry.masinter.net
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Anne van Kesteren [mailto:annevk@opera.com] 
> > Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:29 AM
> > To: Larry Masinter; Michael(tm) Smith (mike@w3.org); Philippe Le Hegaret
> > Cc: www-archive; Maciej Stachowiak; Paul Cotton; Sam Ruby; Manu Sporny
> > Subject: Re: Documents not in scope for HTML-WG
> > 
> > On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:16:43 +0100, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>  
> > wrote:
> >> None of RDFa, Microdata  or 2D Context, are in scope for the current  
> >> HTML working group charter.
> > 
> > Well, at least for 2D Context the Working Group decided over two years ago  
> > that it is:
> > 
> >    http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/15
> > 
> > 
> 
Received on Monday, 8 February 2010 22:21:45 GMT

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