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Re: PROPOSAL: Procedure to Promote Progress With Accessibility Issues in HTML5

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:27:35 -0400
Message-ID: <4A647ED7.5060803@intertwingly.net>
To: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
CC: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, www-archive <www-archive@w3.org>
Steven Faulkner wrote:
> sam wrote:
>>I am particularly puzzled by the stance "we don't make formal replies to 
> individuals" and "in particular HTML WG editors...are encouraged to make 
> use of >[WAI XTECH Mailing List and HTML WG Teleconferences]".
> 
> I think you are conflating messages here, the one laura sent and you 
> quoted from has no official connection or endorsement with any WAI group.
> 
> Your out of context quotation of a reply by Janina to Ian appears to be 
> on the subject of the protocols for inter working group group 
> communication on a formal level. Something which i do not understand, 
> but thought that both you and Janina would being chairs and all.
> 
> best regards
> Stevef
> 
> 2009/7/19 Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net <mailto:rubys@intertwingly.net>>
> 
>     Ian Hickson wrote:
> 
>         On Sun, 19 Jul 2009, Laura Carlson wrote:
> 
>             To that end, we propose that the HTML working group adopt
>             the following statement as an official procedure and publish
>             it in HTML working group Web space.
> 
>             Procedure to Promote Progress With Accessibility Issues in HTML5
> 
>             Procedure Overview:
> 
>             The HTML WG will look to the W3C WAI groups for guidance,
>             listen to their advice, and collaborate with them to reach
>             mutually agreeable accessibility solutions. Furthermore,
>             collaboration will be promoted in a pro-active manner, i.e.,
>             whenever possible, design features known or foreseen to have
>             an impact on accessibility will be explored and discussed
>             with the Protocols and Formats Working Group (PFWG) [2]
>             prior to decisions in order to ensure mutually beneficial
>             resolution of issues.
> 
> 
>         Laura, in the interests of the collaboration you espouse, could
>         you reply to the e-mail I wrote to you last month?
> 
>           http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0669.html
> 
>             Collaboration Framework:
> 
>             1. Approach issues on the basis of the shared goal of making
>             HTML 5
>             the best solution for everyone, including people with
>             disabilities.
> 
> 
>         This should mean working for accessibility as a whole, not
>         working for specific features. For example, in the context of
>         tables, it should mean focusing on making tables accessible, not
>         focusing on the summary="" attribute to the exclusion of
>         discussion of other solutions. (I have been informed that in
>         fact the WAI groups are more interested in voting on whether
>         summary="" is in or out than on voting on what accessibility
>         solutions should be used to make tables accessible, for instance.)
> 
>         Can we get a commitment from members of the WAI to approach
>         issues on the basis of the shared goal of making HTML 5 the best
>         solution for everyone, including people with disabilities and
>         people without disabilities?
> 
>             2. Work from concrete issues as to what in HTML 5 needs to
>             be improved by asking PFWG to clearly identify accessibility
>             functional requirements and provide rationale.
> 
> 
>         I most recently tried to approach the WAI on the topic of <canvas>:
> 
>           http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2009Jun/0093.html
> 
>         I've yet to receive any concrete functional requirements
>         suggestions for changes to the specification on this topic from
>         the WAI (although I have received several suggestions from
>         members of the HTMLWG who are not members of the WAI). I am
>         still hopeful that the WAI will clearly identify accessibility
>         functional requirements and provide rationale. Is there any
>         chance the WAI could provide an ETA for such advice on this topic?
> 
>             3. Listen to their input, ask for clarification, and work
>             together to
>             devise solutions to satisfy accessibility requirements.
> 
> 
>         I have asked for clarifications, for example in June, regarding
>         tables:
> 
>           http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0173.html
> 
>         I received an official reply to the effect that my questions
>         were not welcome because they were not from a group:
> 
>           http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0260.html
> 
>         ...and my reply to that, asking about which groups would qualify
>         to get a reply, received no replies at all:
> 
>           http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0262.html
> 
>             4. Ask PFWG if proposed solutions meet accessibility
>             requirements.
>              * If they say no, ask what functionality is still needed and
>             continue the collaboration.
> 
> 
>         As noted above, I did this with <canvas>, and received no
>         concrete replies. (I received many thanks, but no technical
>         replies.)
> 
>         I look forward to further collaborations with the WAI, and hope
>         that concrete advice such as the advice you suggest that we ask
>         for will be forthcoming.
> 
> 
>     +1 to what Ian said.  Continuing where Ian left off:
> 
>     Laura Carlson wrote:
> 
>          * If they say no, ask what functionality is still needed and
>         continue the collaboration.
>          * If they say yes, incorporate text for the mutually agreed upon
>         solution into the specification.
> 
> 
>     These options are available to every member of the HTML Working
>     Group. Many members of WAI are members of the HTML Working Group.
>      Those that are not currently members but are interested in
>     exercising the above options are also encouraged to join.
> 
> 
>         Collaboration Tools:
> 
>         Tools to facilitate the procedure include but are not limited to:
> 
>         * WAI XTECH Mailing List [3]
>         * PF's Caucus on HTML Issues Weekly Teleconference [4]
>         * Joint Task Forces/Ad Hoc Groups
>         * Joint Sessions at Face-to-Face Meetings
>         * HTML WG Teleconferences [5]
>         * W3C ESW Wiki [6]
>         * Tracker [7]
> 
> 
>     All of these exist as possibilities and many are actively being used.
> 
> 
>         All interested parties, in particular HTML WG editors, are
>         encouraged
>         to make use of these collaboration tools and opportunities.
> 
> 
>     I am particularly puzzled by the stance "we don't make formal
>     replies to individuals" and "in particular HTML WG editors...are
>     encouraged to make use of [WAI XTECH Mailing List and HTML WG
>     Teleconferences]".
> 
> 
>         Respectfully,
> 
>         Laura L. Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com
>         <mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>>
> 
>      (public) Invited expert (good standing)
> 
> 
>         Bruce Lawson <bruce@brucelawson.co.uk
>         <mailto:bruce@brucelawson.co.uk>>
> 
>      Opera Software (good standing)
> 
> 
>         Catherine Roy <ecrire@catherine-roy.net
>         <mailto:ecrire@catherine-roy.net>>
> 
>      (public) Invited expert (good standing)
> 
> 
>         Debi Orton <oradnio@gmail.com <mailto:oradnio@gmail.com>>
> 
>      (public) Invited expert (good standing)
> 
> 
>         Gez Lemon <gez.lemon@gmail.com <mailto:gez.lemon@gmail.com>>
> 
> 
>         Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net <mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net>>
> 
>      (public) Invited expert (good standing)
> 
> 
>         John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu <mailto:jfoliot@stanford.edu>>
> 
>      (public) Invited expert (good standing)
> 
> 
>         Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no <mailto:lhs@malform.no>>
> 
>      (public) Invited expert (good standing)
> 
> 
>         Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com <mailto:rob@robburns.com>>
> 
> 
>         Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com
>         <mailto:sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>>
> 
>      W3C Invited Experts (good standing)
> 
>     In a word, I am disappointed by this proposal.  In addition to the
>     two things Ian is waiting on, I am waiting on text for a vote on the
>     summary issue to be made available for a public review.
> 
> 
>         [1] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter.html#wai
>         [2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/
>         [3] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/participation.html#Subscribin
>         [4] http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/Caucus
>         [5] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Teleconferences
>         [6] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML
>         [7] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker
> 
>         A copy of this proposal is also in the ESW Wiki at:
>         http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AccessibilityIssueProcedure
> 
>         --
>         Laura L. Carlson
> 
> 
>     - Sam Ruby
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> with regards
> 
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG Europe
> Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium
> 
> www.paciellogroup.com <http://www.paciellogroup.com> | www.wat-c.org 
> <http://www.wat-c.org>
> Web Accessibility Toolbar - 
> http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Monday, 20 July 2009 14:28:18 GMT

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