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Re: [Ietf-honest] Adding people to the honest IETF list

From: Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:36:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Message-ID: <26885250.1251228987522.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
To: Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org>, Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>, Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>
Cc: ietf-honest@lists.iadl.org, www-archive@w3.org
Noah and all,

  It would be nice if everyone had only nice and friendly
things to say, but such is not the real world now is it.

  I don't always agree with Dean as he can attest too, but
I do take what he does have to say into consideration and
at some point make up my own mind what I think of same
without trying to intently offend him or others in the process.
Seems to me that any of you on this forum could extend the same
basic courtesy accordingly instead of exchanging insults endlessly.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org>
>Sent: Aug 25, 2009 1:51 PM
>To: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>, Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>
>Cc: ietf-honest@lists.iadl.org, www-archive@w3.org
>Subject: Re: [Ietf-honest] Adding people to the honest IETF list
>On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 01:51:02PM -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
>> The answer is yes. You did consent to receive communications on IETF
>> business from other IETF participants.
>I consented to receiving mail from a specific mailing list.
>> I am faciliitating that communication.
>You are facilitating the aggressive and unwelcome advancement of your personal
>agenda by subscribing what probably amounts to hundreds of people to a mailing
>list without their prior permission.
>I see that you re-subscribe people when they un-subscribe:
>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Aug/0071.html
>I salute your dedication to the cause!
>> You have recieved no spam, nor any non-ietf business.
>I have received no knitting patterns, gardening tips, or weather forecasts from
>you either. Listing all the shit you didn't send me doesn't make the shit you
>did send me any less annoying.
>> Those other "IETF lists" you refer to conduct business specific to
>> working groups. You have not been subscribed to a different topic other
>> than general IETF business.
>Your personal beef with the IETF is not general IETF business.
>Moreover, I would still be annoyed even if it was. Just because I have commented
>on an IETF list does not mean that I am interested in general IETF business. And
>even if I was interested in IETF business, I am the person who decides that.
>Not you.
>> >   This is really the main issue that people have with you.  You accuse
>> > other people of all kinds of things, and then appear to engage in much
>> > the same behavior yourself.
>> So you frivolously and falsely claim.  The difference is that I have
>> facts that back up my view, and you don't.
>That this thread exists should be all the facts required.
>> > I want my complaints archived where they cannot be deleted.
>> Ah, so you are abusing the W3 consortium mail servers for a purpose to
>> which they were not intended.  I should have guessed.
>The purpose of the list is:
>  Miscellaneous. Mail-to-web gateway.
>Which fits my use pretty well, wouldn't you say?
>> > I don't care about IETF business.
>> Then why did you post to the IETF list?
>To make some technical comments on an Internet Draft.
>> > > Also note that the ISOC was formed in 1992 to take the Internet
>> > > standards out of the government, Vint Cerf and other ISOC incorporators
>> > > made promises never to close participation. They have plainly violated
>> > > those promises.
>> >
>> > Seriously, I don't care.
>> Then you should not bother posting on it. You are just wasting time if
>> you don't care.
>I don't need to care about your personal issues to post technical comments.
>> > > In organizations (whether incorporated or not incorporated), where there
>> > > are no membership standards, participation demonstrates membership.
>> > > The IETF is open to the public and has no membership standards; You have
>> > > participated in the IETF, and are therefore a member.
>> >
>> > Irrelevant.
>> It is indeed relevant to the matter of membership rights; You claim I
>> have no right to contact you; I claim I do. I am right because society
>> through law has already dealt with the rights of members in both
>> unincorporated and incorporated organizations.
>Just because you have the right to contact me, does not mean that you should.
>I am considering subscribing you to my own mailing list:
>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Aug/0072.html
>What are your thoughts on that?
>> > You are deluding yourself.
>> No, it is you who are deluded; by pretending that the established rules
>> of society and corporations don't apply to our relationship.
>>               --Dean
>You have a very strange view of how social interaction works. I have made it
>abundantly clear that your communication with me is unwelcome, and so have a
>number of other people. Telling me that you will continue because you're not
>breaking any rules just means that you're behaving like an arse.
>I would apologise for replying to your private mail publicly, but ah well...
>Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater
>Ietf-honest mailing list



Jeffrey A. Williams
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Received on Wednesday, 26 August 2009 15:27:30 UTC

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