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Re: WG comments, Working Drafts, and Last Call -- clarification please?

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:18:29 -0500
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Cc: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>, www-archive@w3.org, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Chris Wilson <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
Message-Id: <1249586309.14124.9435.camel@pav.lan>
Our positions are close enough that I'm not going
to bother all of public-html with them...

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 11:45 -0700, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> 
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 11:30 AM, Dan Connolly wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 12:27 -0500, Shelley Powers wrote:
> > 
> > > Is it true that the Working Group can't comment during Last Call?
> > > That
> > > we have to raise issues before then?
> > 
> > Last call is a decision that the WG is done with all the issues
> > it knows about. So it's out of order for a WG member to
> > be party to a decision that we've addressed all our issues
> > and then turn around and send last call comments.
> > 
> 
> 
> Here's my understanding:
> 
> 
> - By Last Call, a Working Group is expected to have resolved all
> serious issues within the Working Group. In practice this doesn't
> always happen.
> - There is no general rule against a Working Group member commenting
> on the spec during Last Call.
> - It would be out of order for a Working Group member to attempt to
> reopen an issue that has been resolved by actual Working Group
> decision, if they don't have new information to provide. Not because
> it's Last Call, but because WG decisions can only be reopened based on
> new information.

Yes, I suppose that's the more relevant constraint.

> - Last Call is an appropriate time to register Formal Objections, even
> from WG members. Technically, Formal Objections don't even really mean
> anything before LC.

Perhaps it's a matter of chairing style, but I don't think last
call is an appropriate time to register formal objections.
The appropriate time is after chair proposes to close
an issue and asks "any objections?" and before the chair
actually announces the outcome of the decision.

> - It is common and accepted for WG members to comment on a spec in the
> course of LC, either because they discover new issues, or because they
> bring up something that may have been discussed, but not resolved by
> Working Group decision.

Except for the new issues, I consider that irregular, for the
same reason you gave above: decisions can only be reopened based on
new information. Anything that wasn't resolved by a WG decision on
a specific issue is resolved in the decision to go to last call.
	
> - The Working Group is obliged to formally address all Last Call
> comments, whether from a WG member or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > If this is true, is Last Call still on schedule for October? Do we
> > > know when in October?
> > 
> > We can only go to last call in October if we close issues
> > a lot faster than we have been.
> > 
> 
> That I agree with. Our current rate on closing serious issues(*) is
> approximately zero per year. If you extrapolate this trend, it does
> not project to Last Call happening any time soon. By our charter and
> the process, it is the responsibility of the Chairs to ensure that
> issues do not remain open indefinitely.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Maciej
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * - By serious I mean people see resolving it as a showstopper, and
> consensus is not found solely through discussion and action of the
> editor.
> 
> 
-- 
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
gpg D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541  0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Thursday, 6 August 2009 19:18:39 GMT

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