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Re: Testing Piggy Bank as a newbie.

From: Eric Miller <em@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:55:30 -0500
Message-Id: <A7D3B888-2400-4A58-B212-57F95DA31551@w3.org>
Cc: Stefano Mazzocchi <stefanom@mit.edu>, www-archive@w3.org
To: Karl Dubost <karl@w3.org>

Thanks Karl! Very helpful feedback - much appreciated! :)

--e

On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:09 PM, Karl Dubost wrote:

> Hi Eric, Hi Stefano,
>
> You have asked if I could give a try to Piggy Bank. So I will  
> describe the process of using it. I have assumed that I had no  
> knowledge of anything and then I have written my comments, my  
> impressions, my feelings. Don't take it bad. I really tried to know  
> anything. Some of my questions were really true questions I had.
>
> I hope it will help you.
>
>
>
> * I'm using Mac Os X 10.4.3 on a powerbook 12".
> * I'm using Camino or Safari usually.
> * I have always a  bunch of applications running at the same (7  
> right now)
>
> STARTING
>
> In Camino, I put the address
>     http://simile.mit.edu/piggy-bank/
>     Cookies (grrr) ;)
>
> Good: Right away, the first page tell me What is "piggy bank". But  
> right away, it tells me I have to download Firefox. I know your  
> application is tied to the browser, that might make some people go  
> away. Does it work in Mozilla for exemple?
>
> Bad:
>     * the link to "Semantic Web" on W3C Home Page. The page there  
> has improved a lot but is still done for specialist. We lack at W3C  
> a page explaining very simply what the semantics Web is about. :) I  
> would be happy to work on that with Eric Miller and Ian Jacobs.
>     * What is a "Semantic Web Browser"? :) I'm not sure that people  
> really care. Maybe something a lot simpler as it helps you to grab  
> and collect data on the Web auto-magically. What is the purpose for  
> the user? Why it will help his/her life?
>     * Screenshots: Usually that's good to have screenshots, but  
> here there are out of context. :) You should put that on another  
> page give it the name: "Your 5 minutes introduction to Piggy Bank"  
> and shows the screenshot surrounded by a story. Or even make a  
> screencast.
>     http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/gems/delicious.html
>     Example: 5 minutes of using delicious.
>
> Good:
>     * What can I do with this? :) But I guess should be part of the  
> introduction and the link to the screencast.
>
> Bad:
>     * The introduction has it is done now is a bit dry and you see  
> a lot of text and you want to run away ;) Too much work for my  
> brain to start. :)
>
> Good:
>     * The examples in the intro are interesting, but replace  
> Scenario 1, etc. by a catch phrase. Something like, just  
> suggestions, you will have certainly better titles than mine.
>     Scenario 1 -> "Find and locate a place for lunch"
>     Scenario 2 -> "Find a good place for your new apartment"
>     Scenario 3 -> "Sort out information the way you want"
>
> Bad:
>     * At the end of the introduction or in the first page, You  
> should propose "How to start". I haven't found what should I do  
> step by step.
>     1. Download Firefox (if you do not have it)
>     2. Click on the Get Piggy Bank button.
>
> The only way to know it for now is to click on the get piggy bank.
>
> /PAUSE: Download Firefox. BACK with it/
>
> I click on get piggy bank. A message for my security. I have to  
> allow simile.mit.edu. :) It's something to explain in the how to  
> install. So "allow" and close this window.
> Click again on Get PiggyBank.
> PiggyBank.xpi is showing in a window with a red "Unsigned"… Red for  
> the user means bad. Should you signed it. :)
>
> Click Install Now.
>
> ok. Done.  Going to the "Now What?" because I still don't know what  
> to do. :)
> How do I customize my toolbar? hmmm, another missing instruction.
>
> Go to View -> Toolbars -> Customize…
>
> hmmm… I went there and I haven't seen little pig. Does that mean  
> something failed? Or should I restart? (missing instruction) I will  
> restart to try.
>
> Oh Sweet. I restart, I thought my browser was frozen (say to people  
> there might be a little delay). And I have a screen with Piggy Bank.
>
> Enter your email address. :) I have to enter one. which one my  
> personal or my professional. Ok let's try with the professional one.
>
> Hmm URI I need an API key. I go to Google. Cut and past the  
> 127.0.0.1 URI as given… and I end up on Google Accounts.
>
>     What does that mean? Is it ok?
>     Do I need a Google Account? But I don't want a Google Account.
>
> Ok I'll skip this feature in Piggy Bank and will not benefit of  
> Maps. (Maybe a system of Maps online with less tracking of personal  
> and private data would be good).
>
> The yellow box is good to give you a warning that it will take time.
>
> Ok cool I have been able to put the pig in the toolbar. :)  
> Great. :) Let's start.
>
> I'm going to the screen scrapers site as said. But what is a screen  
> scraper?
>     "Screen scrapers are pieces of code that can extract “pure”  
> data from web pages."
>     Oooh you mean "Screen scrapers are tools which helps piggy bank  
> to understand and collect data in the page you are browsing" ;)
>
>
> http://simile.mit.edu/bank/bank?command=browse&-=% 
> 40lwq.project.PropertyProjector%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F1999% 
> 2F02%2F22-rdf-syntax-ns%23type%3B%40lwq.bucket.DistinctValueBucketer 
> %3Brhttp%3A%2F%2Fsimile.mit.edu%2F2005%2F04%2Fpiggy-bank% 
> 23XSLTScreenScraper%2Crhttp%3A%2F%2Fsimile.mit.edu%2F2005%2F04% 
> 2Fpiggy-bank%23JavascriptScreenScraper&
>
>
> Ouch :) This page is not usable. :) Specifically for a beginner.  
> What I'm supposed to do here. I don't know at all. :) Going back.
>
> The second link is not helpful either. I'm going back again. Hmmm  
> there's a screenshot saying that I should click on the RDF icon at  
> the bottom right.  Ok I will give a try again with the first and  
> the second link.
>
> First link, I have clicked. Something has happened but I don't know  
> what has happened. Is it ok?
>
> When I have clicked the second link I don't have any RDF icon. Is  
> it because I have done the first one? Is it because there's nothing  
> to do on this page?
> I don't know.
>
> "Save the screen scrapers you like (by clicking the Save button for  
> each of those screen scrapers)"
>
> Oh an instruction which comes too late. Trying again.
> Ok I see the save. Maybe a screenshot of the save button.
>
> You know I save all these screen scrapers, but I don't know their  
> goals. There's no description of them. and there are bizarre labels  
> with an arrow. Too much complicated. I don't know what that means.
>
> I just want a button with, for example:
>
> "Keep memories of the book you have read with Amazon."
> "Description: blablabla"
> "Save"
>
> or
>
> "Tools to grab calendar information contained in pages"
> "Description: blablabla"
> "Save"
>
> :)))
>
>
> What the hell is "CSAIL Directory Scraper" and why it's interesting  
> for me?
> On the first list there was no "Save" Button
>
> OK going back to the list "Now What"
>
>
> Yoohoo Finally "Try it out for real". It took me almost 45 minutes  
> to get there.
>
> Ahaha! Titles which seems more interesting. Toronto.com, Monster,  
> etc. But still a UI which doesn't quite make it. I don't want to  
> see the pipes ;) I just want the meaningful content under my eyes.
>
> ok done all the "Save", even Toronto.com… Oh geez I'm not living in  
> Toronto but it could be fun, I don't know. I'm just a dumb user.
>
> I go to Monster.com
>
> I type in Keywords: [ RDF ]
>
> oops nothing happened. Going back the page "now what"
>
> "You should see the data coin icon at the right side of the status  
> bar. Click on it."
>
> hmmmm… Trying again. Nothing on the right side of the status bar.  
> Nothing at all.
> I have verified again my scraper for monster.com is saved. Nothing  
> has happened.
>
> Ahhh… What should I do?
> End of experiment?
>
> I don't know what to do next. :)
>
> End of experiment for now.
>
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> -- 
> Karl Dubost - http://www.w3.org/People/karl/
> W3C Conformance Manager
> *** Be Strict To Be Cool ***
>
>
>
Received on Thursday, 17 November 2005 22:55:26 GMT

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