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Re: [w3photo] Quicky Agenda

From: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.umd.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:27:33 -0500
Message-Id: <p05200f25bc29aebf4afd@[10.0.1.5]>
To: semantic-photolist@unitboy.com
Cc: post@kanzaki.com, jim@jibbering.com

Libby-
  I'm forced t disagree w/a lot of the below about tools and 
ontologies -- first of all, I understand your point, but if we're 
supposed to have as one of our goals showing off Sem Web technology, 
then it would be foolish not to use RDFS and OWL both of which are 
Proposed Recs right now.  If we do use them, we should use them right 
-- it is pretty easy to adapt ones RDF tools to do the right thing, 
and it's the right thing to do.
  More importantly, using equivalences, or even better just linking 
via URIs is what the Sem Web is all about -- pulling eveything 
together seems like a bad idea to me -- and most importantly, its not 
scalable in the long run -- suppose other groups want to add other 
concepts to the ontologies we are developing for this project (which 
seems to me a good thing, not a bad one), they would need to add 
their stuff via pointers and/or RDFS/OWL statements, or else you'd 
need to let them get in and edit the main file (or otherwise assert 
into it) which seems very non-SWy to me
  That said, we should put some time and effort into cleaning up the 
vocabularies we build this from.  For example, if your stuff has a 
"region" concept, and technical.owl has a "circularRegion" we should 
make sure a subclass relation is put in
  Looking forward to discussing this stuff on irc
  -JH
p.s. to put it another way, let's not let expediency get in the way 
of good design!




At 13:56 +0000 1/13/04, Libby Miller wrote:
>hi Greg, all,
>
>re actions:
>[[
>#  libby/danbri/nick/steve: to work on an account of the data we'd
>want. it may not need a new schema at all
>]]
>(action from http://esw.w3.org/topic/WWW2004)
>
>An 'account of the data we'd want' is here
>http://esw.w3.org/topic/ImageDescriptionRdfExamples
>
>(thanks also to Jennifer Golbeck)
>
>There are some example files, e.g:
>http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2004/01/www2004/path-eg.rdf
>
>and I have used CWM to generate a schema:
>
>http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2004/01/www2004/schema-eg.rdf
>using these sample data files:
>
>kanzaki-eg.rdf  (thanks Masahide)
>long-eg.rdf
>path-eg.rdf
>
>Couple of design decisions:
>
>(1)In the examples and generated schema I've used Jim Ley's classes and
>properties to describe parts of images; however it's clear that this
>needs some more discussion, and indeed one of the purposes of the
>proposed new list is to work this out:
>http://esw.w3.org/topic/ImageDescriptionList
>
>- I propose a specific IRC chat about this topic on another day
>
>(2)I have reused classes and properties from existing vocabs rather than
>create a new one. Jennifer Golbeck has taken a different tack:
>
>http://www.mindswap.org/~glapizco/technical.owl
>
>There is a clear difference in philosophy here between people who are
>used to working with strong OWL (and perhaps RDFS) tools and those
>without; from an OWL point of view in particular:
>
>[[
><nmg> libby: in the OWL worldview, the axioms which form the links
>between two existing ontologies are themselves another ontology which
>extends both of the ontologies it links
>]]
>
>and owl:equivalentClass between classes means that they are the same
>class, so from an owl point of view there is simply no difference
>between using owl:equivalentClass and creating a new ontology, and
>reusing existing terms.
>
>For tools that don't have particularly good RDFS or OWL support there is
>a big difference however, dramatically reducing interop and the
>usefulness of the dataset (imho).
>
>In addition, due to current processing capabilities it is generally
>faster to mix vocabs directly rather than using equivalencies:
>
>[[
><DanCon> I think equivalencies are for when you discover that they're
>the same after-the-fact; it's antisocial to make aliases.
>
>15:19:22 <DanCon> ... to make aliases on purpose, that is.
>]]
>http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2004-01-07#T15-18-49
>
>I think this is an important issue (both for the image ontology and the
>conference ontology), and so I'd like to see this on this or another
>agenda so a decision can be made (we've had discussions but no decision
>as yet:
>http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2004-01-06#T15-39-28)
>
>cheers,
>
>Libby
>
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Greg Elin wrote:
>
>>  (Apologies...sent last night, but from the wrong address!)
>>
>>  Quicky Agenda for Jan 13 IRC 16:00 GMT
>>  Host: irc.freenode.net 	Channel: rdfig
>>
>>  Please check links before meeting if at all possible!
>>
>>  "Getting things ready to be public"
>>
>>  I.	Attending, Intros, Announcements (5 minutes)
>>
>>  II.	Front Door Web site (10 minutes)
>>  	http://www.fotonotes.net/www2004photo
>>  	- is it ready?
>>  	- URL should be?
>>  	- design (icon, colors, etc?)
>>  	- maintain plan?
>>
>>  III.	Discuss/Decide Usage and Privacy Policy (15 minutes)
>>  	- Revisit Usage license
>>  	http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/1.0/
>>  	http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/1.0/
>>  	other?
>>  	- Discuss Privacy (EU, US, W3C, other?)
>>  	http://www.caslon.com.au/privacyguide4.htm
>>  	http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/newslog/2003/08/25.html#a161
>>
>>  IV.  	Task list update (15 minutes)
>>  	http://esw.w3.org/topic/WWW2004 (scroll down to section 3)
>>  	- Southampton update
>>  	- email list description http://esw.w3.org/topic/ImageDescriptionList
>>  	- Greg update
>>  	- wiki working okay?
>>
>>  V.	Whatever (15 minutes)
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Professor James Hendler			  http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/hendler
Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies	  301-405-2696
Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.	  301-405-6707 (Fax)
Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742	  240-277-3388 (Cell)

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Received on Tuesday, 13 January 2004 09:27:29 GMT

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