- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:23:26 -0500
- To: wai-xtech@w3.org
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
25 Nov 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa,
+1.416.848.aaaa, David_Bolter
Regrets
Cynthia_Shelly
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
bgaraventa1979, joanie, clown
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ISSUE-568: (All) need actions for mappings or
aria-modal for all AAPIs.
2. [5]ACTION-1528/ISSUE-587: (David) Investigate the
proper ia2 mappings for aria-current.
3. [6]ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2
mapping of role="text".
4. [7]ACTION-1528/ISSUE-587: (David) Investigate the
proper ia2 mappings for aria-current.
5. [8]ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2
mapping of role="text".
6. [9]ACTION-1529/ISSUE-587: (Joseph) Investigate the
proper atk/at-spi mappings for aria-current.
7. [10]ACTION-1528/ISSUE-587: (David) Investigate the
proper ia2 mappings for aria-current.
8. [11]ACTION-1527ISSUE-587: (Cynthia) Investigate the
proper uia mappings for aria-current.
9. [12]ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2
mapping of role="text".
10. [13]ACTION-1530/ISSUE-435: (Cynthia) investigate ia2
mapping of role="text".
11. [14]ACTION-1532/ISSUE-435: (Joseph) investigate
atk/at-spi mapping of role="text".
12. [15]ACTION-1445/ISSUE-661: (Cynthia) Investigate ideal
mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.
* [16]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 25 November 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<clown>
[17]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#text
[17] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#text
<davidb> looks good
<clown> scribenick: bgaraventa1979
ISSUE-568: (All) need actions for mappings or aria-modal for all
AAPIs.
<clown> issue-568?
<trackbot> issue-568 -- Introduce system modal attributes for
dialogs -- open
<trackbot> [18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/568
[18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/568
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
JS: The spec already has aria-modal in it.
<clown>
[19]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-modal
[19] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-modal
JS: Here it is (above)
... We need mappings for them. There are currently no actions.
I'd like to assign them.
... One for David for IA2, one for Joanie for ATK, etc.
... Is that ok?
All: Yes.
DB: It will be more than mapping.
JS: What else would it be?
DB: I guess... I bet James Craig is wondering if it will
disallow user action outside the modal dialog.
JS: [Reads definition]
DB: We should try to scope ARIA so that it has clearly defined
boundaries.
... My thinking is that I would not change accessibility stuff.
... So if someone put aria-modal on something, I'd want them to
have already handled making it functionally modal.
JS: It was my assumption that authors would have created a
modal user experience.
DB: As we've discovered over the years, we need to be explicity
about that.
JS: [Reads more text]
<clown> ACTION: David Bolter to investigate and propose
mappings for aria-modal property for IA2 and/or MSAA. [recorded
in [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1538 - Bolter to investigate and
propose mappings for aria-modal property for ia2 and/or msaa.
[on David Bolter - due 2014-12-02].
JS: So HTML has an inert attribute so they (authors) should
mark the rest of the document inert. Though it's not required.
DB: Ok.
<clown> ACTION: Joanie to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for ATK/AT-SPI [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1539 - Investigate and propose
mappings for aria-modal property for atk/at-spi [on Joanmarie
Diggs - due 2014-12-02].
action-1539
<trackbot> action-1539 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and
propose mappings for aria-modal property for atk/at-spi -- due
2014-12-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1539
[22] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1539
<clown> ACTION: Cythia to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for UIA. [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Cythia'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[24]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
[24] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for UIA. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1540 - Investigate and propose
mappings for aria-modal property for uia. [on Cynthia Shelly -
due 2014-12-02].
<clown> ACTION: James Craig to investigate and propose mappings
for aria-modal property for AXAPI. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> 'James' is an ambiguous username. Please try a
different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g.,
jcraig, jhawkins2, jnurthen).
JS: Warning, because this is already in the spec, I'm going to
propose something soon if no one else does.
... I think David was the only one who replied (to my email)
DB: Sounds right.
<clown> ACTION: jcraig to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for AXAPI. [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1541 - Investigate and propose
mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. [on James Craig -
due 2014-12-02].
JD: I just did my action and transfered it to you (Joseph)
JS: I think there is already an IA2 one.
... [Looks for email on mailing list]
<clown>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Nov/007
7.html
[28]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Nov/0077.html
JS: There it is [reads from above email]
... I stand corrected, nobody replied to me.
ACTION-1528/ISSUE-587: (David) Investigate the proper ia2 mappings
for aria-current.
<clown> action-1528?
<trackbot> action-1528 -- Alexander Surkov to Bolter to
investigate the proper ia2 mappings for aria-current -- due
2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[29]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1528
[29] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1528
JS: aria-current is not in the spec yet.
... This is about the MSAA-IA2 mapping for aria-current.
... Since it's not in the spec yet, there's no rush on this.
DB: I filed a bug about this earlier today.
... We were talking about it a few days ago.
... Whatever ATK does, we'll do in IA2.
JS: ATK is doing STATE_ACTIVE.
DB: We filed the bug and CCed James Teh.
JS: But there's still discussion on the mailing list regarding
this versus selected versus focused.
JD: [Points out that Dominic suggested aria-active]
DB: Question, what if the user changes the browser tabs. Should
we attempt to put focus there?
JS: No.
... When they come back, they should go back to where they were
before.
BG: That makes sense to me.
DB: I just asked because it would be a handy thing.
<clown>
[30]http://idrc.ocad.ca/index.php/research-and-development/ongo
ing-projects
[30]
http://idrc.ocad.ca/index.php/research-and-development/ongoing-projects
JS: I actually found that our own website [link above]. If you
look on the left, there's a table of contents on the left. It's
not a tree view; it's just a list of links.
... [Describes blue arrow showing current item in contents]
... That's aria-current
DB: When does it matter wrt the screen reader?
JS: "Screen reader, tell me what's current?"
BG: It shouldn't be anything complicated. When you're arrowing
or tabbing through it. The screen reader should speak what's
current.
JS: Would you want a gesture for "what's current?"
BG: You could do that, but you don't have to.
DB: That makes sense to me.
JS: Also, if you're on the main page and there's a next button
that takes you to something else, making the current change, I
think you should get an event.
... And you will in a proper implementation of ATK.
BG: Sounds good to me.
ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2 mapping of
role="text".
<clown> action-1531?
<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate
ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[31]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
[31] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
ACTION-1528/ISSUE-587: (David) Investigate the proper ia2 mappings
for aria-current.
DB: aria-active could be confused for aria-activedescendant
JS: And I take it you're warning that the name aria-active
might not be a good one.
DB: Maybe
... I also think the aria-current idea in my head is
overlapping with aria-activedescendant
... But I understand they are different
JS: aria-activedescendant is about focus.
... aria-current is not about focus.
[group makes fun of the scribe]
ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2 mapping of
role="text".
DB: The main thing for me is Alex has to be ok with whatever we
have planned.
action-1531
<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate
ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[32]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
[32] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
DB: So where is the group? What do you want from me.
JS: ATK/AT-SPI2 has a new role: ROLE_STATIC.
... They even created the documentation for it.
<clown>
[33]https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html
[33] https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html
<davidb>
[34]https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#Atk
Role
[34]
https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#AtkRole
DB: This seems to mirror the spec text well, at least not
contradict it.
... What do we have in IA2 currently?
... This should ... Alex had a stronger opinion on this than I
did.
... I can say the spec text looks good and the ATK text looks
good, but I cannot give you an answer for IA2 today.
[DB departs]
JS: I'll mark it as TBD in the spec.
ACTION-1529/ISSUE-587: (Joseph) Investigate the proper atk/at-spi
mappings for aria-current.
<clown> action-1529
<trackbot> action-1529 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate the
proper atk/at-spi mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[35]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1529
[35] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1529
JS: I think I'm ready to go on this.
... Yes, I'm ready to write everything that needs to be. I just
haven't done it yet. I'll do it sometime this week.
BG: I'll catch up on that.
JS: There's a lot of notes.
... Oh this is for aria-current. I guess I should wait until
the spec text is there.
... Usually the mapping points back to the spec where the
property is defined.
... So I may wait until the next heartbeat.
BG: Does it matter if it's called aria-current or aria-active?
JS: I would have said 'no' until David mentioned the potential
confusion with activedescendant.
... We're trying to make it easy for the author.
[Jokes about Matt's aria-youarehere]
ACTION-1528/ISSUE-587: (David) Investigate the proper ia2 mappings
for aria-current.
ACTION-1527ISSUE-587: (Cynthia) Investigate the proper uia mappings
for aria-current.
<clown> action-1527
<trackbot> action-1527 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the
proper uia mappings for aria-current -- due 2015-01-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[36]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527
[36] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527
JS: We'll check the action to see if she made any notes. But
she's not here.
... She says in her latest note [reads].
... My vote is get something like aria-current added to UIA.
BG: That's my vote. I never liked the idea of them being the
same thing.
The text from action-1527 under discussion is: "selectionitem
pattern can't be used on images. It looks like there is not a
good mapping to UIA for this. Now the question is whether to
update both ARIA and UIA to allow selection on any role/control
type, or to try to get something like aria-current added to
uia."
JS: I guess we'll address this when she's back.
... Thank you Cynthia for adding that note.
ACTION-1531/ISSUE-435: (David) investigate ia2 mapping of
role="text".
ACTION-1530/ISSUE-435: (Cynthia) investigate ia2 mapping of
role="text".
<clown> action-1530?
<trackbot> action-1530 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate uia
mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[37]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1530
[37] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1530
JS: [Looks for note for this action]
<clown>
[38]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee6
71651%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
[38]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee671651%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
Cynthia's note on action-1530 is: "The best mapping would be
the Text control type.
[39]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee6
71651(v=vs.85).aspx
[39]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee671651(v=vs.85).aspx
However, I the inheritance model of the text role described in
the draft makes me very uncomfortable. I think it will be used
in error and remove a lot of semantics and behavior from
children.
(end of quote)
JS: That sounds right, but there's a "However".
... It has events too.
... That does make me a little.... I wouldn't expect something
that has role="text" to spawn any events.
... Is offscreen an event?
BG: I guess.
JS: It's a property. If it moves offscreen... text can
move/scroll offscreen.
... I guess I need to talk to her to see what this means.
BG: That could be useful.
JS: I'm not planning on adding any events for role="text"
... So wait until she gets back. I think that's a topic for the
Monday group.
BG: Sounds good to me.
JS: I'll just do the role mapping part for now; nothing new to
the events table.
ACTION-1532/ISSUE-435: (Joseph) investigate atk/at-spi mapping of
role="text".
<clown> action-1532?
<trackbot> action-1532 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate
atk/at-spi mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[40]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1532
[40] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1532
JS: I think that's going to be nothing more than... I know what
I need to do here. Yes.
... I have the mappings for ATK/AT-SPI2 and will use that.
<clown> action-1104?
<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the
accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in
section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the
accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies --
due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[41]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
[41] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
JS: Another Cynthia one. Is there a note?
... No.
... This is the one where when you use aria-describedby with
UIA it actually creates a pointer to the description.
... If the description has CSS display:none, it's not in the
accessibility tree and there's nothing to point to.
... Everyone else just grabs the string so there's no need for
pointers.
... So there's been this question since 2012 about how do you
handle this in UIA.
... At one point, Cynthia suggested fallback to legacy
description, but then stated that is not really the right thing
to do.
BG: Unless and until something does get added, there's nothing
else available.
ACTION-1445/ISSUE-661: (Cynthia) Investigate ideal mapping for role
presentation in tables and lists.
<clown> action-1445?
<trackbot> action-1445 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the
ideal uai mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. --
due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[42]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1445
[42] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1445
JS: No note on action-1445
... I don't think I'll get how to handle role="presentation"
for tables and lists into the mapping guide.
... But I'll think about it. There might be something general I
can say.
... I know we have this resolved for ATK and I think IA2.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: I created a bug against FF that said to map, say, a
gridcell with role presentation to the same thing as a div.
... But, they recently closed that bug, and maybe something
similar was done with IA2.
... <looks up bug>
... My point is it may have been resolved for IA2 as well.
<joanie>
[43]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013584
[43] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013584
<joanie>
[44]https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/38f5bfa0e2f7
[44] https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/38f5bfa0e2f7
s/scribenick: clown/scribenic: clown/
<joanie> ACTION: Joanie to verify the commit for mozilla bug
1013584 and report the ATK role to Joseph. [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1542 - Verify the commit for mozilla
bug 1013584 and report the atk role to joseph. [on Joanmarie
Diggs - due 2014-12-02].
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for UIA. [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Cythia to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for UIA. [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: David Bolter to investigate and propose mappings
for aria-modal property for IA2 and/or MSAA. [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: James Craig to investigate and propose mappings
for aria-modal property for AXAPI. [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jcraig to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for AXAPI. [recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Joanie to investigate and propose mappings for
aria-modal property for ATK/AT-SPI [recorded in
[51]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Joanie to verify the commit for mozilla bug
1013584 and report the ATK role to Joseph. [recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-aapi-minutes.html#action07]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:24:00 UTC