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Re: closing a Tab?

From: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:03:00 -0500
Message-ID: <003201c87def$b2236920$0501a8c0@HANDS>
To: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, "Jon Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Aaron M Leventhal" <aleventh@us.ibm.com>, "David Bolter" <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
Cc: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>, <wai-xtech-request@w3.org>

and perhaps we should also add true or false.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
To: "Jon Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>; "Aaron M Leventhal" 
<aleventh@us.ibm.com>; "David Bolter" <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
Cc: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>; 
<Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>; <wai-xtech@w3.org>; 
<wai-xtech-request@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:37 AM
Subject: RE: closing a Tab?



Sortable IS a criterion, even for the curmudgeon .. think of table columns 
:)

Context menu is always a good idea. But I think this discussion is not so 
much about how-to-trigger, it is more about the initial info that a Tab CAN 
be closed if user wants so and how to announce that on focus and IF that 
should be announced.

- Stefan


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu]
Sent: Dienstag, 4. März 2008 00:10
To: Aaron M Leventhal; David Bolter
Cc: Becky Gibson; Schnabel, Stefan; Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com; 
wai-xtech@w3.org; wai-xtech-request@w3.org
Subject: Re: closing a Tab?

I agree with Aaron if we can do it with a context menu it will be much more 
consistent to the user.

Jon


---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:46:36 -0500
>From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
>Subject: Re: closing a Tab?
>To: David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
>Cc: Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, Jon Gunderson 
><jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, 
>Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-xtech-request@w3.org
>
>   Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but closeable seems a bit
>   odd to me. How about saveable, reloadable and
>   sortable, etc.?
>
>   Aren't these all just context menu items? Why is one
>   more special than the rest? And closeable is not
>   supported by ATs or known by users.
>
>   - Aaron
>
>David Bolter                    To "Schnabel, Stefan"
><david.bolter@utoronto.ca>         <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
>Sent by:                        cc Jon Gunderson
>wai-xtech-request@w3.org           <jongund@uiuc.edu>,
>                                   Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com,
>03/03/2008 11:31 AM                Becky Gibson
>                                   <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>,
>                                   wai-xtech@w3.org
>                           Subject Re: closing a Tab?
>
>
>   An aria-closable seems reasonable. I can't remember
>   past discussions
>   about this and why it might not have been
>   included... ?
>
>   D
>   Schnabel, Stefan wrote:
>   > Agree. So do we need a aria-closable property? Or
>   can we use any of the existing aria properties for
>   that?
>   >
>   > Stefan
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu]
>   > Sent: Montag, 3. März 2008 15:33
>   > To: Schnabel, Stefan; Wlodkowski, Thomas; Becky
>   Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>   > Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>   >
>   > We need to have some awareness of the closability
>   to a tab, like a popup context menu.  I am not sure
>   a tooltip is the best way to do this.
>   >
>   > Jon
>   >
>   >
>   > ---- Original message ----
>   >
>   >> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:58:31 +0100
>   >> From: "Schnabel, Stefan"
>   <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
>   >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>   >> To: "Wlodkowski, Thomas"
>   <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, "Jon Gunderson"
>   <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Becky Gibson"
>   <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
>   >>
>   >> Tom,
>   >>
>   >> That's why we're doing Best Practices, don't we?
>   >>
>   >> Think of FireFox. Having 10 Tabs open and arrow
>   keying with additional
>   >> focusing of the closing cross icon will result in
>   a keyhitcount of 18 to
>   >> navigate the tabs instead of 9.
>   >>
>   >> And don't tell me Firefox isn't a good example :)
>   (just kidding)
>   >>
>   >> So currently we solve the issue for Tabs in our
>   Web Dynpro frameworks
>   >> with memorizing special keys in the tab tooltip
>   in cases where it does
>   >> make sense.
>   >>
>   >> - Stefan
>   >>
>   >> -----Original Message-----
>   >> From: Wlodkowski, Thomas
>   [mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com]
>   >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 18:25
>   >> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Jon Gunderson; Becky
>   Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>   >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>   >>
>   >> I also think the icon attached to the tab or in
>   the tab order may also
>   >> be helpful. We need to consider cognitive load
>   when talking about
>   >> keyboard shortcuts. Too many web and software
>   apps to track/memorize.
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> -----Original Message-----
>   >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org
>   [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On
>   >> Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan
>   >> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:54 AM
>   >> To: Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>   >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> Jon,
>   >>
>   >> better to have a standardized hotkey for closing
>   tab. As a concept we
>   >> tend to keep tab chains short.
>   >>
>   >> Regards
>   >> Stefan
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> -----Original Message-----
>   >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org
>   [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On
>   >> Behalf Of Jon Gunderson
>   >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 17:32
>   >> To: Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>   >> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> Why can't the close icon be in tab order and the
>   icon can also be part
>   >> of the label for the tab.
>   >>
>   >> Jon
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> ---- Original message ----
>   >>
>   >>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:21 -0500
>   >>> From: "Becky Gibson"
>   <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>
>   >>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?
>   >>> To: wai-xtech@w3.org
>   >>>
>   >>>
>   >>> I implemented a context menu for closable tabs
>   in the dojo tab
>   >>>
>   >> container.
>   >>
>   >>> See the second tab panel example on [1]. The
>   tabs with title "first"
>   >>>
>   >> and
>   >>
>   >>> "third" are closable. Pressing shift-F10 with
>   focus on these tabs will
>   >>> bring up a context menu with "close".  If a tab
>   is closable, pressing
>   >>>
>   >> the
>   >>
>   >>> delete key with focus on the title will delete
>   the tab.  I thought this
>   >>>
>   >> is
>   >>
>   >>> what the style guide group had decided upon?
>    Although it would be nice
>   >>>
>   >> if
>   >>
>   >>> there was a way to indicate to the screen reader
>   user that a tab (or
>   >>>
>   >> any
>   >>
>   >>> other item) was deletable without having the use
>   the shift-F10
>   >>>
>   >> discovery
>   >>
>   >>> mechanism.
>   >>>
>   >>> I based my implementation decision on the  DHTML
>   Style Guide June 29,
>   >>>
>   >> 2007
>   >>
>   >>> meeting minutes [2]:
>   >>> TW: options other than DELETE - CTRL+F4 a
>   possibility, have
>   >>> to get comments on that - what we are saying is
>   context menu and
>   >>>
>   >> keyboard
>   >>
>   >>> shortcut combo fine - great if had property so
>   didn't have to use
>   >>>
>   >> context
>   >>
>   >>> menu, but maybe that's phase 2
>   >>> So perhaps we made a decision but just didn't
>   record it in the style
>   >>> guide?
>   >>> [1]
>   >>>
>   http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/t
>   >>>
>   >> est_TabContainer.html
>   >>
>   >>> [2]
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html
>   >>>
>   >>> Becky Gibson
>   >>> Web Accessibility Architect
>   >>>
>
>   >>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies
>   >>> 5 Technology Park Drive
>   >>> Westford, MA 01886
>   >>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101
>   >>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com
>   >>> blog: WebA11y
>   >>>
>   >>>
>   >>> wai-xtech-request@w3.org wrote on 02/28/2008
>   03:06:06 PM:
>   >>>
>   >>>
>   >>>> In the Best Practices we have a dangling
>   question:
>   >>>>
>   >>>> <quote
>   >>>>
>   cite="http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#TabPanel">
>   >>>>
>   >>>> Unresolved at time of port from DHTML wiki: How
>   to indicate that a
>   >>>> tab panel can be deleted? Visually a close icon
>   can be provided in
>   >>>> the upper right hand corner of the tab which
>   the user can click on to
>   >>>>
>   >>>> delete the tab panel. Putting this close icon
>   in the navigation
>   >>>> sequence would make extra navigation. Is there
>   some way to indicate
>   >>>> to a non-visual user that a tab panel can be
>   deleted with a defined
>   >>>> keystroke? Perhaps we can capture ctrl-w (the
>   key used in Firefox and
>   >>>>
>   >>>> IE 7) to close a tab? T * here is still the
>   issue of the user knowing
>   >>>>
>   >>>> that the tab is closable or not. Another option
>   is to provide a
>   >>>> context menu. With focus on the tab title the
>   user would press shift-
>   >>>>
>   >>>> F10 to invoke a context menu - the context menu
>   would have the close
>   >>>> option. In both of these cases if the tab can
>   not be closed, it still
>   >>>>
>   >>>> needs to capture the keystroke so that it
>   doesn't get bubbled up and
>   >>>> handled by the browser. Retrieved from
>   "http://www.weba11y.com/
>   >>>> styleguide/index.php?title=Tab_Panel"
>   >>>>
>   >>>> </quote>
>   >>>>
>   >>>> Don,
>   >>>>
>   >>>> Could you get this on the agenda for the Style
>   >>>> Guide Group to suggest a preferred user
>   experience?
>   >>>>
>   >>>> Al
>   >>>>
>   >>>> /satisfying ACTION-101
>   >>>>
>   >>>> PS:  I didn't immediately find an answer at
>   >>>> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel
>   >>>>
>   >>>>
>   >>>
>   >>>
>   >> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
>   >> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
>   >> Disability Resources and Educational Services
>   >>
>   >> Rehabilitation Education Center
>   >> Room 86
>   >> 1207 S. Oak Street
>   >> Champaign, Illinois 61821
>   >>
>   >> Voice: (217) 244-5870
>   >>
>   >> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
>   >> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
>   > Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
>   > Disability Resources and Educational Services
>   >
>   > Rehabilitation Education Center
>   > Room 86
>   > 1207 S. Oak Street
>   > Champaign, Illinois 61821
>   >
>   > Voice: (217) 244-5870
>   >
>   > WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
>   > WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
Disability Resources and Educational Services

Rehabilitation Education Center
Room 86
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, Illinois 61821

Voice: (217) 244-5870

WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
Received on Tuesday, 4 March 2008 12:03:43 UTC

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