W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > wai-xtech@w3.org > March 2008

Re: closing a Tab?

From: David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:59:30 -0500
Message-ID: <47CC2E72.50607@utoronto.ca>
To: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
CC: Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-xtech-request@w3.org

I see, so "haspopup" would be a kind of a catch all. I suspect for tabs, 
users might habituate that haspopup probably means closeable 99% of the 
time and they could try the keystroke.

That said, it seems a little unfair that the visual user has the 
affordance of a close box, and the non-visual user gets a haspopup. But 
then, perhaps with, like you mention, things like reloadable and 
sortable, the indirection of a menu might be a welcome noise reduction?

cheers,
David

Aaron M Leventhal wrote:
>
> Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but closeable seems a bit odd to me. How 
> about saveable, reloadable and sortable, etc.?
>
> Aren't these all just context menu items? Why is one more special than 
> the rest? And closeable is not supported by ATs or known by users.
>
> - Aaron
>
>
>
> *David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>*
> Sent by: wai-xtech-request@w3.org
>
> 03/03/2008 11:31 AM
>
> 	
> To
> 	"Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
> cc
> 	Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, 
> Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, wai-xtech@w3.org
> Subject
> 	Re: closing a Tab?
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
>
> An aria-closable seems reasonable. I can't remember past discussions
> about this and why it might not have been included... ?
>
> D
> Schnabel, Stefan wrote:
> > Agree. So do we need a aria-closable property? Or can we use any of 
> the existing aria properties for that?
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu]
> > Sent: Montag, 3. März 2008 15:33
> > To: Schnabel, Stefan; Wlodkowski, Thomas; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
> >
> > We need to have some awareness of the closability to a tab, like a 
> popup context menu.  I am not sure a tooltip is the best way to do this.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> >  
> >> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:58:31 +0100
> >> From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>  
> >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?  
> >> To: "Wlodkowski, Thomas" <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, "Jon 
> Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Becky Gibson" 
> <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> That's why we're doing Best Practices, don't we?
> >>
> >> Think of FireFox. Having 10 Tabs open and arrow keying with additional
> >> focusing of the closing cross icon will result in a keyhitcount of 
> 18 to
> >> navigate the tabs instead of 9.
> >>
> >> And don't tell me Firefox isn't a good example :) (just kidding)
> >>
> >> So currently we solve the issue for Tabs in our Web Dynpro frameworks
> >> with memorizing special keys in the tab tooltip in cases where it does
> >> make sense.
> >>
> >> - Stefan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Wlodkowski, Thomas [mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com]
> >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 18:25
> >> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
> >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
> >>
> >> I also think the icon attached to the tab or in the tab order may also
> >> be helpful. We need to consider cognitive load when talking about
> >> keyboard shortcuts. Too many web and software apps to track/memorize.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan
> >> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:54 AM
> >> To: Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
> >> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
> >>
> >>
> >> Jon,
> >>
> >> better to have a standardized hotkey for closing tab. As a concept we
> >> tend to keep tab chains short.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Stefan
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Jon Gunderson
> >> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 17:32
> >> To: Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
> >> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?
> >>
> >>
> >> Why can't the close icon be in tab order and the icon can also be part
> >> of the label for the tab.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >>
> >> ---- Original message ----
> >>    
> >>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:21 -0500
> >>> From: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>  
> >>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?  
> >>> To: wai-xtech@w3.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I implemented a context menu for closable tabs in the dojo tab
> >>>      
> >> container.
> >>    
> >>> See the second tab panel example on [1]. The tabs with title "first"
> >>>      
> >> and
> >>    
> >>> "third" are closable. Pressing shift-F10 with focus on these tabs 
> will
> >>> bring up a context menu with "close".  If a tab is closable, pressing
> >>>      
> >> the
> >>    
> >>> delete key with focus on the title will delete the tab.  I thought 
> this
> >>>      
> >> is
> >>    
> >>> what the style guide group had decided upon?  Although it would be 
> nice
> >>>      
> >> if
> >>    
> >>> there was a way to indicate to the screen reader user that a tab (or
> >>>      
> >> any
> >>    
> >>> other item) was deletable without having the use the shift-F10
> >>>      
> >> discovery
> >>    
> >>> mechanism.
> >>>
> >>> I based my implementation decision on the  DHTML Style Guide June 29,
> >>>      
> >> 2007
> >>    
> >>> meeting minutes [2]:
> >>> TW: options other than DELETE - CTRL+F4 a possibility, have
> >>> to get comments on that - what we are saying is context menu and
> >>>      
> >> keyboard
> >>    
> >>> shortcut combo fine - great if had property so didn't have to use
> >>>      
> >> context
> >>    
> >>> menu, but maybe that's phase 2
> >>> So perhaps we made a decision but just didn't record it in the style
> >>> guide?
> >>> [1]
> >>> 
> http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/t
> >>>      
> >> est_TabContainer.html
> >>    
> >>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html
> >>>
> >>> Becky Gibson
> >>> Web Accessibility Architect
> >>>                                                      
> >>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies
> >>> 5 Technology Park Drive
> >>> Westford, MA 01886
> >>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101
> >>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com
> >>> blog: WebA11y
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> wai-xtech-request@w3.org wrote on 02/28/2008 03:06:06 PM:
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>> In the Best Practices we have a dangling question:
> >>>>
> >>>> <quote
> >>>> cite="http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#TabPanel">
> >>>>
> >>>> Unresolved at time of port from DHTML wiki: How to indicate that a
> >>>> tab panel can be deleted? Visually a close icon can be provided in
> >>>> the upper right hand corner of the tab which the user can click on to
> >>>>        
> >>>> delete the tab panel. Putting this close icon in the navigation
> >>>> sequence would make extra navigation. Is there some way to indicate
> >>>> to a non-visual user that a tab panel can be deleted with a defined
> >>>> keystroke? Perhaps we can capture ctrl-w (the key used in Firefox and
> >>>>        
> >>>> IE 7) to close a tab? T * here is still the issue of the user knowing
> >>>>        
> >>>> that the tab is closable or not. Another option is to provide a
> >>>> context menu. With focus on the tab title the user would press shift-
> >>>>        
> >>>> F10 to invoke a context menu - the context menu would have the close
> >>>> option. In both of these cases if the tab can not be closed, it still
> >>>>        
> >>>> needs to capture the keystroke so that it doesn't get bubbled up and
> >>>> handled by the browser. Retrieved from "http://www.weba11y.com/
> >>>> styleguide/index.php?title=Tab_Panel"
> >>>>
> >>>> </quote>
> >>>>
> >>>> Don,
> >>>>
> >>>> Could you get this on the agenda for the Style
> >>>> Guide Group to suggest a preferred user experience?
> >>>>
> >>>> Al
> >>>>
> >>>> /satisfying ACTION-101
> >>>>
> >>>> PS:  I didn't immediately find an answer at
> >>>> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>
> >>>      
> >> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
> >> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
> >> Disability Resources and Educational Services
> >>
> >> Rehabilitation Education Center
> >> Room 86
> >> 1207 S. Oak Street
> >> Champaign, Illinois 61821
> >>
> >> Voice: (217) 244-5870
> >>
> >> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
> >> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
> > Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
> > Disability Resources and Educational Services
> >
> > Rehabilitation Education Center
> > Room 86
> > 1207 S. Oak Street
> > Champaign, Illinois 61821
> >
> > Voice: (217) 244-5870
> >
> > WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
> > WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
> >
> >
> >
> >  
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 3 March 2008 16:59:52 UTC

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