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Re: closing a Tab?

From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:46:36 -0500
To: David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca>
Cc: Becky Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>, Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-xtech-request@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFA99B59DE.C7999A78-ON85257401.005C19DA-85257401.005C4A76@us.ibm.com>
Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but closeable seems a bit odd to me. How about 
saveable, reloadable and sortable, etc.?

Aren't these all just context menu items? Why is one more special than the 
rest? And closeable is not supported by ATs or known by users.

- Aaron




David Bolter <david.bolter@utoronto.ca> 
Sent by: wai-xtech-request@w3.org
03/03/2008 11:31 AM

To
"Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
cc
Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com, Becky 
Gibson <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, wai-xtech@w3.org
Subject
Re: closing a Tab?







An aria-closable seems reasonable. I can't remember past discussions 
about this and why it might not have been included... ?

D
Schnabel, Stefan wrote:
> Agree. So do we need a aria-closable property? Or can we use any of the 
existing aria properties for that?
>
> Stefan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Gunderson [mailto:jongund@uiuc.edu] 
> Sent: Montag, 3. März 2008 15:33
> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Wlodkowski, Thomas; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>
> We need to have some awareness of the closability to a tab, like a popup 
context menu.  I am not sure a tooltip is the best way to do this.
>
> Jon
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
> 
>> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:58:31 +0100
>> From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> 
>> Subject: RE: closing a Tab? 
>> To: "Wlodkowski, Thomas" <Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com>, "Jon 
Gunderson" <jongund@uiuc.edu>, "Becky Gibson" 
<Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> That's why we're doing Best Practices, don't we?
>>
>> Think of FireFox. Having 10 Tabs open and arrow keying with additional
>> focusing of the closing cross icon will result in a keyhitcount of 18 
to
>> navigate the tabs instead of 9.
>>
>> And don't tell me Firefox isn't a good example :) (just kidding)
>>
>> So currently we solve the issue for Tabs in our Web Dynpro frameworks
>> with memorizing special keys in the tab tooltip in cases where it does
>> make sense.
>>
>> - Stefan 
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wlodkowski, Thomas [mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com] 
>> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 18:25
>> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>>
>> I also think the icon attached to the tab or in the tab order may also
>> be helpful. We need to consider cognitive load when talking about
>> keyboard shortcuts. Too many web and software apps to track/memorize.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On
>> Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan
>> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:54 AM
>> To: Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?
>>
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>> better to have a standardized hotkey for closing tab. As a concept we
>> tend to keep tab chains short.
>>
>> Regards
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jon Gunderson
>> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 17:32
>> To: Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?
>>
>>
>> Why can't the close icon be in tab order and the icon can also be part
>> of the label for the tab.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:21 -0500
>>> From: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com> 
>>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab? 
>>> To: wai-xtech@w3.org
>>>
>>>
>>> I implemented a context menu for closable tabs in the dojo tab
>>> 
>> container. 
>> 
>>> See the second tab panel example on [1]. The tabs with title "first"
>>> 
>> and 
>> 
>>> "third" are closable. Pressing shift-F10 with focus on these tabs will 

>>> bring up a context menu with "close".  If a tab is closable, pressing
>>> 
>> the 
>> 
>>> delete key with focus on the title will delete the tab.  I thought 
this
>>> 
>> is 
>> 
>>> what the style guide group had decided upon?  Although it would be 
nice
>>> 
>> if 
>> 
>>> there was a way to indicate to the screen reader user that a tab (or
>>> 
>> any 
>> 
>>> other item) was deletable without having the use the shift-F10
>>> 
>> discovery 
>> 
>>> mechanism. 
>>>
>>> I based my implementation decision on the  DHTML Style Guide June 29,
>>> 
>> 2007 
>> 
>>> meeting minutes [2]: 
>>> TW: options other than DELETE - CTRL+F4 a possibility, have
>>> to get comments on that - what we are saying is context menu and
>>> 
>> keyboard 
>> 
>>> shortcut combo fine - great if had property so didn't have to use
>>> 
>> context 
>> 
>>> menu, but maybe that's phase 2
>>> So perhaps we made a decision but just didn't record it in the style 
>>> guide?
>>> [1] 
>>> 
http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/t
>>> 
>> est_TabContainer.html
>> 
>>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html
>>>
>>> Becky Gibson
>>> Web Accessibility Architect
>>> 
>>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies
>>> 5 Technology Park Drive
>>> Westford, MA 01886
>>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101
>>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com
>>> blog: WebA11y
>>>
>>>
>>> wai-xtech-request@w3.org wrote on 02/28/2008 03:06:06 PM:
>>>
>>> 
>>>> In the Best Practices we have a dangling question:
>>>>
>>>> <quote
>>>> cite="http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#TabPanel">
>>>>
>>>> Unresolved at time of port from DHTML wiki: How to indicate that a 
>>>> tab panel can be deleted? Visually a close icon can be provided in 
>>>> the upper right hand corner of the tab which the user can click on to
>>>> 
>>>> delete the tab panel. Putting this close icon in the navigation 
>>>> sequence would make extra navigation. Is there some way to indicate 
>>>> to a non-visual user that a tab panel can be deleted with a defined 
>>>> keystroke? Perhaps we can capture ctrl-w (the key used in Firefox and
>>>> 
>>>> IE 7) to close a tab? T * here is still the issue of the user knowing
>>>> 
>>>> that the tab is closable or not. Another option is to provide a 
>>>> context menu. With focus on the tab title the user would press shift-
>>>> 
>>>> F10 to invoke a context menu - the context menu would have the close 
>>>> option. In both of these cases if the tab can not be closed, it still
>>>> 
>>>> needs to capture the keystroke so that it doesn't get bubbled up and 
>>>> handled by the browser. Retrieved from "http://www.weba11y.com/ 
>>>> styleguide/index.php?title=Tab_Panel"
>>>>
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Don,
>>>>
>>>> Could you get this on the agenda for the Style
>>>> Guide Group to suggest a preferred user experience?
>>>>
>>>> Al
>>>>
>>>> /satisfying ACTION-101
>>>>
>>>> PS:  I didn't immediately find an answer at
>>>> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
>> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
>> Disability Resources and Educational Services
>>
>> Rehabilitation Education Center
>> Room 86
>> 1207 S. Oak Street
>> Champaign, Illinois 61821
>>
>> Voice: (217) 244-5870
>>
>> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
>> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
> Disability Resources and Educational Services
>
> Rehabilitation Education Center
> Room 86
> 1207 S. Oak Street
> Champaign, Illinois 61821
>
> Voice: (217) 244-5870
>
> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
>
>
>
> 
Received on Monday, 3 March 2008 16:48:27 UTC

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