Minutes: User Agent telecon 4 Sept 2014

from: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 04 Sep 2014

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Kim_Patch,
KellyRegretsChairJimAllan,
KellyFordScribeallanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. TPAC meetings with other groups?
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Publishing doc.
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Action 1029 Fleshout note for conformance of nested ua user
      interfaces <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#item03>
      4. MS04 Note <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#item04>
      5. 3.2.3 spell check
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#item05>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 04 September 2014

<scribe> scribe: allanj
TPAC meetings with other groups?

<jeanne2> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings

js: optional meeting 11-3 meeting time for adhoc meetings both days
... schedule between groups
Publishing doc.

perhaps next week, with 3 week turn around, handle comments. then publish
again right before TPAC

discussion on clean up particulars
Action 1029 Fleshout note for conformance of nested ua user interfaces

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0080.html

Proposed: insert into UAAG 2.0 Conformance Applicability Notes

<Jan> Note: In this document the term user interface is reserved only for
controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for
conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content
or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page
containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own
unique user interface. The media...

<Jan> ...player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the
parent user agent has its own conformance claim.

<Jan> Note: In this document the term UA user interface is reserved only
for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for
conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content
or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page
containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own
unique user interface. The media...

<Jan> ...player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the
parent user agent has its own conformance claim.

<jeanne2> Embedded user agents: The term user agent (UA) user interface is
reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being
considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms
created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent
displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent
with its own unique user interface. The

<jeanne2> media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as
the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.

discussion of UA user interface and the conformance

gl: this note is about the scope of the term UA user interface

<jeanne2> Scope of User Agent User Interface: Embedded user agents: The
term user agent (UA) user interface is reserved only for controls and
mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It
does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user
agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media
player. The media player is a user agent with

<jeanne2> its own unique user interface. The media player would have its
own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own
conformance claim.

<jeanne2> Scope of User Agent User Interface: The term user agent (UA) user
interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent
that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and
mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop
user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a
user agent with its own unique user

<jeanne2> interface. The media player would have its own unique conformance
claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.

<jeanne2> Scope of User Interface: The term user agent (UA) user interface
is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is
being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and
mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop
user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a
user agent with its own unique user interface.

<jeanne2> The media player would have its own unique conformance claim,
just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.

Scope of User Interface: The term user interface is reserved only for
controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for
conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content
or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page
containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own
unique user interface.

The media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the
parent user agent has its own conformance claim.

<jeanne2> Scope of User Interface: The term "user interface" is reserved
only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered
for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by
content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a
page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its
own unique user interface. The media player

<jeanne2> would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent
user agent has its own conformance claim.

<jeanne2> *ACTION:* jeanne to update document to add Conformance
Applicability Note above and link to the conformance note from the
definition of user interface. Standardize all SCs to use term "user
interface" linked to the definition. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1032 - Update document to add conformance
applicability note above and link to the conformance note from the
definition of user interface. standardize all scs to use term "user
interface" linked to the definition. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2014-09-11].

<Greg> I'd lean towards relegating the examples to the glossary entry for
embedded user agents, but I'll defer to the group.

zakim: close item 1
MS04 Note

MS04 (be clear what is user interface and what is rendered content)

We fixed our definitions, but MS04 also pointed out SC where we were not

specific which applied. I propose the following:

3.2.2 Back button. Added sentence to Intent "The Back feature is a part of
the user agent user interface instead of the rendered content, however,
authors should not "break" the Back button by disabling it, or creating
sequences of web pages that would cause an error if the Back button were
used. "

<Jan> Greg's
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0087.html

<Jan> http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/

gl: need to smith the intent of 3.2.2 back, forward, navigate within history
... ideally change the SC but willing to defer

<Greg> I don't feel the SC needs any change to clarify whether it's related
to UA UI or to content, but I would like to (ideally) see the SC reworded
slightly to avoid focusing entirely on the terms "reverse" and "back". Per
the second paragraph of my email, it should be about more than that.
However, if people want to postpone this until UAAG3, I'll understand.

<Jan> Original numbering: 3.2.2 Back Button

<Jan> 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface

discussion of meaning of the comment

<Jan> 2.2.1 Sequential Navigation Between Elements: The user can move the
keyboard focus backwards and forwards through all recognized enabled
elements in the current viewport.

<Jan> 3.2.3 Spell Check: User agents provide spell checking functionality
for text created inside the user agent.

<kford> I was just asking what 3.2.2.said exactly.

<kford> I know that the ask on this item was to be very explicit about this
discinction.

<kford> I know the ask was to be very expliciti on this point.

jr: need to be more explicit about rendered content.

<kford> We can for example address it by adding this explicitedly or say
that context should in general make this obvious.

<Jan> UAAG 1.0 used to call this out explicitly ("Conformance detail")
http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-USERAGENT/guidelines.html#Guidelines

<kford> I am also saying that we can say that we don't agree with the
comment and such.

<kford> I am saying we could respond that way.

ja: should we take a pass at finding any SC that need explicit rendered
content?

jr: perhaps add an applicability note about rendered content. or if some
one wants to know they can drill down and follow definitions, or read the
reference document
... add "applies to: rendered content, or uaui, or both" for each SC in the
reference document

js: then this must be done by next thurs.

jr: this seems easier than rewording SCs

js: the work is easy, making the decision is difficult

jr: should not be hard, if it is hard then the comment is really valid
... will take a pass at the reference document.
3.2.3 spell check

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0088.html

gl: editorial 'user agents provide' vs 'the user can'
... I’m leery of the phrase "text created inside the user agent"
... only refer to editable stuff in content
... regardless of where content is created
... don't want to require spell check in the UAUI

<Greg> My comment comes down to the fact that the current SC wording risks
accidentally (a) applying to text entered into the UA UI, such as a Find
field or File Open dialog, and (b) NOT applying to text that's pasted into
a form field, since that's not technically "created inside the user agent".

ja: text inside viewport

js: no, not all words in <p> and <h> etc.

<Greg> I'd like to see something like "The user can have spelling and
grammar assistance for any text in a text input field [or control] in
content."

<Greg> Or "The user can have spelling and grammar assistance for text in
text input fields [or controls] in content."

ja: no UA has grammar checking

gl: MS Word does
... extension - grammarly lite, grammar base

<Greg> Lots of extensions for various browsers add grammar checking.

<Greg> But as I said in my email I'm okay with relegating grammar
assistance to a recommendation in the Reference document.

3.2.3 The user can have spelling for text in text input fields [or
controls] in content.

<Greg> Or "The user can have spelling and grammar assistance for editable
text in content."

<Greg> "The user can have spelling assistance for editable text in content."

"The user can have spelling assistance for editable text in rendered
content."

<scribe> *ACTION:* jeanne to update 3.2.3 to be "The user can have spelling
assistance for editable text in rendered content." [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1033 - Update 3.2.3 to be "the user can have
spelling assistance for editable text in rendered content." [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2014-09-11].

<Greg> I can work on adapting my 1st and 3rd paragraphs for inclusion into
the Intent.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0089.html

gl: need a better definition of element and element type

current def

element, element type

Primarily, a syntactic construct of a document type definition (DTD) for
its application. This is the sense employed by the XML 1.0 specification
([XML], section 3). This sense is also relevant to structures defined by
XML schemas. UAAG 2.0 also uses the term "element" more generally to mean a
type of content (such as video or sound) or a logical construct (such as a
header or list).

enabled element: An element with associated behaviors that can be activated
through the user interface or through an API. The set of elements that a
user agent enables is generally derived from, but is not limited to, the
set of elements defined by implemented markup languages.

disabled element: A potentially enabled element that is not currently
available for activation (e.g. a "grayed out" menu item).

element type is used in 1.4.2

<scribe> *ACTION:* greg to send to jeanne new definition for 'element' and
'element type' [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1034 - Send to jeanne new definition for
'element' and 'element type' [on Greg Lowney - due 2014-09-11].
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* greg to send to jeanne new
definition for 'element' and 'element type' [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update 3.2.3 to be "The user can have spelling
assistance for editable text in rendered content." [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update document to add Conformance
Applicability Note above and link to the conformance note from the
definition of user interface. Standardize all SCs to use term "user
interface" linked to the definition. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

-- 
[image: http://www.tsbvi.edu] <http://www.tsbvi.edu>Jim Allan,
Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964