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minutes: UAWG 15 Nov 2012 Telecon

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:58:39 -0600
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WmcXqB8Q_8Z3jGqs5R7SxuBuPKsiQNL-GaGAV5QG6JD2g@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
NOTE: NO CALL NEXT WEEK BECAUSE OF USA HOLIDAY

from: http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15 Nov 2012

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Markku, sharper
Regrets
    Jan, Jeanne, Kelly_(late)
Chair
    JimAllan, KellyFord
Scribe
    jallan

Contents

    Topics
        2.3.3
        2.3.4
        2.3.5
    Summary of Action Items

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne add eg to (Alt+R to reply to a web email) in
2.3.2 so it reads (e.g. Alt+R to reply to a web email). [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add 2.8.1 above to the document, remove 2.8.2.
New IER forth coming [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to change 2.3.3 to A [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Date: 15 November 2012

char: jimAllan, kellyFord

open item 1

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0035.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0035.html

<scribe> scribe: jallan

mh; explains proposal

2.8.1 Customize display of controls representing user interface commands,

functions, and extensions: The user can customize which user agent

commands, functions, and extensions are displayed within the user agent's

user interface as follows: (AA)

(a) Show: The user can choose to display any controls, which can include

user installed extensions, available within the user agent user interface.

It is acceptable to limit the total number of controls that are displayed

onscreen.

(b) Simplify: The user can simplify the default user interface by choosing

to display only commands essential for basic operation (e.g. by hiding

some control).

(c) Reposition: The user can choose to reposition individual controls

within containers (e.g. Toolbars or tool palettes), as well as reposition

the containers themselves to facilitate physical access (e.g. To minimize

hand travel on touch screens, or to facilitate preferred hand access on

handheld mobile devices).

(d) Assign Activation Keystrokes or Gestures: The user can choose to view,

assign or change default keystrokes or gestures used to activate controls.

(e) Reset: The user has the option to reset the containers and controls

available to their original configuration.

kp: good way to do it

mh: Kim you mentioned handedness on mobile devices, but said it more elegantly

ja: what about 2.8.2?

mh: became part of 2.8.1 (item e)

kp: unconference...humana trying for AAA, but some things they can't
do, so are doing AAA -xyz
... 2.8.1 facilitates the compliance

gl: this doesn't answer what happens in status bars, palettes
... a container at the bottom of a window that may have actionalble controls.
... where does it say that the status bar should not be configurable.
... I like the approach.

kp: seems this is a far as we can go.

gl: in FF I can customize all the controls in toolbars, show hide
toolbars. but can't do anything about the menu bar.
... is that a problem

kp: did mozilla do this on purpose or it was too hard

mh: all new browsers have done away with the menu bar, have an icon for options.
... do we need to configure menus and status bar.

ja: status bars have fluid information. should the be positionable?
some are actionable. can show/hide in some browsers.

kp: wary of such detail, in two years things will look different

<Greg> We should modify D to make it clear this applies to direct
activation shortcuts, rather than requiring the user be able to change
whether space or enter activates the control with the keyboard focus.

<Greg> So change "default keystrokes or gestures used to activate
controls" to use the defined phrase "direct activation commands" ?

<mhakkinen> 2.8.1 (d) Assign Activation Keystrokes or Gestures: The
user can choose to view, assign or change default keystrokes or
gestures used to [directly activate]* controls.

<mhakkinen> * link to "direct activation" in glossary.

ja: what should we do about status bars - mostly informational and
fluid. though some are actionable.

mh: use an example about a user adding a control to the status bar.

gl: fine, if we want to enforce this on tool/menu/status bars
... worried that this does not apply to things we don't expect to be
repositionable
... in FF, no script has a close button.

ja: don't expect minus, box, x controls to be movable

gl: explicitly exclude items that conform to OS conventions

mh: a blanket or 'can' exempt

s/exdlued/exclude

<Greg> We may want to clarify that (a) does not prohibit the UA from
hiding controls when they are not applicable. For example, in Excel
you may have Pivot Table controls appear only when the focus is in a
pivot table.

mh: in the wild west of browsers, they are breaking conventions
everywhere. platform conventions are at the whim of the browser
developer
... perhaps adding a note

<mhakkinen> 2.8.1 Customize display of controls representing user
interface commands, functions, and extensions: The user can customize
which user agent commands, functions, and extensions are displayed
within the user agent's user interface as follows: (AA) (a) Show: The
user can choose to display any controls, which can include user
installed extensions, available within the user agent user interface.
It is acceptable to limit the total number of controls t[CUT]

<mhakkinen> 2.8.1 Customize display of controls representing user
interface commands, functions, and extensions: The user can customize
which user agent commands, functions, and extensions are displayed
within the user agent's user interface as follows: (AA)

<mhakkinen> (a) Show: The user can choose to display any controls,
which can include user installed extensions, available within the user
agent user interface. It is acceptable to limit the total number of
controls that are displayed onscreen.

<mhakkinen> (b) Simplify: The user can simplify the default user
interface by choosing to display only commands essential for basic
operation (e.g. by hiding some controls).

<mhakkinen> (c) Reposition: The user can choose to reposition
individual controls within containers (e.g. Toolbars or tool
palettes), as well as reposition the containers themselves to
facilitate physical access (e.g. To minimize hand travel on touch
screens, or to facilitate preferred hand access on handheld mobile
devices).

<mhakkinen> (d) Assign Activation Keystrokes or Gestures: The user can
choose to view, assign or change default keystrokes or gestures used
to [directly activate]* controls.

<mhakkinen> (e) Reset: The user has the option to reset the containers
and controls available to their original configuration.

<mhakkinen> * link to "direct activation" in glossary.

gl: does show imply not shot
... then is b) redundant

<Greg> If Show implies Not Show, isn't Simplify redundant?

ja: controls is a single control or a container of controls

kp: simplify is not redundant. start with complex toolbar, and hides
some but not all controls
... helps get the point across, gets developers thinking the right way.

gl: seems your are adding an intent statement.

kp: you need to be able to simplify, but not tell them how.

gl: need example that meets b) but not a)

kp: a complex bar may be too busy for a user to clean up, a 1 button
'simplify' command would help them

gl: don't think we can require that,
... chrome, what would they have to do to comply with b)

kp: they would not have to have a button to simplify, that's just one
way to do it.
... it could be an extension

gl: trying to get a concrete example. ability to individually
configure the controls.

in microsoft, very configurable. there is no easy way to have a simple
interface, except by removing LOTS of controls.

kp: not having simplify is a barrier to some users, it goes beyond
removing individual controls

gl: seems really subjective. when is it required (how many controls)
that the UA must have a simplify command.

<Greg> I'm uncomfortable with it. For one it's very subjective, if you
require a Simplify command only when they default configuration is
"not simple enough".

kp: important for RSI, cognitive issues, and mobile.
... agree that it is a bit subjective taking the testability view

<Greg> But I'll go with whatever the group decides.

ja: should we keep b) in the SC

<Greg> My preference would be to remove B, clarify A is about
show/hide, and recommend but not require (perhaps as a AAA or in the
Intent) a simple command to select a configuration with simplified UI.

mh: b should stay in

sh: b in

kp: b in

<Greg> If B is staying in, I'd recommend people create examples of
what would and would not meet the requirement.

we need more examples

Kim will write examples.

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to add 2.8.1 above to the document, remove
2.8.2. New IER forth coming [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-776 - Add 2.8.1 above to the document,
remove 2.8.2. New IER forth coming [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2012-11-22].

open item 2

topic 2.3.2

mh: level is ok.

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne add eg to (Alt+R to reply to a web email) in
2.3.2 so it reads (e.g. Alt+R to reply to a web email). [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-777 - Add eg to (Alt+R to reply to a web
email) in 2.3.2 so it reads (e.g. Alt+R to reply to a web email). [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-11-22].

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20121108/#gl-configure-controls
2.3.3

mh: should be an A

gl: move to A

kp: should be A

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to change 2.3.3 to A [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-778 - Change 2.3.3 to A [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2012-11-22].
2.3.4

all ok with AA

mh: question about gesture control

kp: many supports for gesture insertion in UI

kim will write examples for 2.3.4 about gesture insertion

<Greg> If the user can customize which keystroke and mouse button are
associated with the Back command. Do both have to be displayed on or
with the button, at least in some mode? Is there a standard for how to
represent a mouse button? Or Ctrl+Left Click?

<Greg> ja: His mouse has six buttons, customizable in the Mouse control panel.
2.3.5

no objections

rragent, make minutes

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 15 November 2012 19:59:05 GMT

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