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Minutes: 12 April 2012 UAWG telecon

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:28:42 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WkTQRvuxQ1szCLb+uULhSeVgFERfdt32txiRP+EWX-9PA@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from http://www.w3.org/2012/04/12-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
12 Apr 2012

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2012/04/12-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    [Microsoft], Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, sharper
Regrets
    greg
Chair
    KellyFord, JimAllan
Scribe
    jallan

Contents

    Topics
        ***closing Guideline 1
        1.2.1 & 1.2.2 Action-712 Simon
        1.3.3, 1.5.1 needs decision on whether it is done or not (no
    Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 12 April 2012
***closing Guideline 1

action items)

one, we edited it)

<trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

revised wording)

Kudos to ATAG for it's last Call!

Kim did a talk yesterday about keyboard shortcuts and voice navigation
1.2.1 & 1.2.2 Action-712 Simon

beginning of thread:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0008.html

discussion of changed wording and levels

Proposal: Delete 1.2.1 & 1.2.2

Add:

1.2.X Provide Available Information: If missing or empty alternative

content or associations are recognized, the user agent will notify the

user and provide a mechanism to relate all available metadata to the

user upon request.

merge the intents and examples from 1.2.1, 1.2.2

jr: word "associations", label for form has association. but there are
others. associations is not precise enough
... metadata is too general

sh: not sure how to do it

jr: see appendix on Accessibility information, could substitute for
meta information.
... would help scope the information
... would replace associations and metadata with 'accessibility information'
... does UAAG want to use the relative accessibility based on WCAG.

js: depends on the use case. this SC would be useful with photo sites.
if we just to a11y information, we would eliminate all of the photo
metadata available
... reason I liked the 'metadata' term

jr: another usecase
... the bigger case is the relationships, form field has visual
relation ship but not in code. they need more help discovering those.

js: that is AI (it is difficult)

jr: interpage links need to be remediated.

js: don't want to do this a A. its too hard
... simons proposal...don't try to repair, just give me the metadata
the user will make some sense out of it.

kf: how do you cap that.
... images will have resolution, time, date, geolocation, etc. dozens
more. how do we scope it.

sh: it is useful information, but may be overwhelming, perhaps terse
and verbose setting

kf: what does wcag require.

ja: alt and longdesc

kf: how much of the photo image info is retained when converted.

js: UA provides what it has. and provides it on request

ja: do UAs already do this?

sh: the act of displaying the image, must process it and have access
to the metadata

jr: but then there is surfacing it, need UI, structure data.

sh: yes its not critical, but it is on user request only
... disagree, it is critical to get as much info as necessary

ja: reviews discussion

sh: perhaps 2 sc, one for a11y info level A, and meta info at AA

js: but a11y info is not there, that's the point.
... has proposal

<jeanne> 1.2.X Provide Available Information: If missing or empty
alternative content or accessibility information are recognized, the
user agent will notify the user and provide a mechanism to relate all
available metadata to the user upon request.

<jeanne> 1.2.X Provide Available Information: If missing or empty
accessibility information is recognized, the user agent will notify
the user and provide a mechanism to relate all available metadata to
the user upon request.

kf: +1

kim: +1

jr: empty?? so if an ignored image, the user can still get some info

sh: what if site is stupid and pastes in imagesorce as alt, then alt
is not missing or empty. then UA doesn't have to do anything.

jr: missing, empty, or improper

js: how to define improper

sh: what about eliminate missing or empty, just give metadata

jr: +1, but bring it back to human language metadata, or something to scope it.

js: need to bind it to certain element, else its everything on the page.

sh: also on the focused element

<Jan> jr: non-text element well defined by WCAG

http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120410/#def-Accessibility-Information

http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120410/#prompting-types

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0025.html

<scribe> scribe: jallan

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-ATAG20-20120410/Overview.html#sc_b233

js: would this apply to keyboard shortcuts

jr: explains ATAG b233

this could be a resource for 1.2.x

sh: what about adding poorly repaired alternative

js: we don't want repair, we want alternatives

jr: UA of future could ocr image, use databased images (OBI project from DIAGAM)
... keep 121 and 122, because they can be turned off, and add simons
for additional help
... user access metadata to discover.

js: don't like, we spent lots of time about not repairing information.

kf: without repair, how much effort will users go to to get information

sh: useful repair is so far out, thinks metadata is more important.

js: we wanted to eliminate stupid repair.
... good with removing 121 and 122.

jr: then we must eliminate totally the repair. the entire point is the
'whether or not'.

js: how to reword to eliminate an sc.

jr: ATAG has concept...don't repair unless special knowledge, then
kick to AT to make obvious repair.
... that special knowledge is the metadata.

js: filename is matadata, but we want to eliminate it.

sh: support wrapping in 1.2.3 repair association. as a AAA
... put 121 122 and 123 in to 1 sc. and the Metadata (new one is A).
... other (conflated one) is AAA

<jeanne> action-712 assign to Jan

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to propose that "associations" become
"accessibility information"

<jeanne> Resolved: Remove editor's note from 1.3.2
1.3.3, 1.5.1 needs decision on whether it is done or not (no

jr: seems like we talked about this recently
... what is this adding to 1.3.1

kim: intents are very different

ja: 131 does not cover scripted elements.

sh: these are all about visually perceiveable. what about auditory highlighting?

kim: need to add 'visual highlighting' to 132

jr: general highlighting is covered in 131
... we could get prescriptive and add auditory

ja: what about haptic

kp: do we have a parallel for what the audio highlighting should be?

js: perhaps add to UAAG-Next!

kim: kelly would this be useful

kf: not sure

sh: have audio style bold, italic (different audio, voices) what about
links selections, etc

kp: what is the audio equivelent

<jeanne> How about "If the user agent uses visual, "

issue: if the user agent has an audio or tactile or xxx display then
provide the following highlighting...related to 1.3.1,2,3

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-91 - If the user agent has an audio or
tactile or xxx display then provide the following
highlighting...related to 1.3.1,2,3 ; please complete additional
details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/91/edit .

jr: this is a disconnect between 131 c and 133 a
... what if we remove 133a and let it focus on scripted input.

kp: +1

ja: +1

jr: should 131 c be enabled input elements

<scribe> ACTION: kim to rewrite 133 to eliminate a) and make b the
focus of it be b. need some rewording on the (e.g. ) perhaps
eliminate. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-723 - Rewrite 133 to eliminate a) and make b
the focus of it be b. need some rewording on the (e.g. ) perhaps
eliminate. [on Kimberly Patch - due 2012-04-19].

jr: every element on a page could have an id, don't want to highlight everything

ja: javascript blackhole
... how is this related to tabindex=-1

the onclick or onkeypress are going away.

ja: should 133 be eliminated. because scripting is becomming more
abstract, and only special case of onClick and onKeyPress

rrsagent make minutes
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: kim to rewrite 133 to eliminate a) and make b the focus
of it be b. need some rewording on the (e.g. ) perhaps eliminate.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]


-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 12 April 2012 19:29:09 GMT

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