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RE: Minutes: 20 June 2011 User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

From: Richards, Jan <jrichards@ocad.ca>
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:34:26 +0000
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <0B1EB1C972BCB740B522ACBCD5F48DEB02799DF4@ocadmail-scrsvr.ocad.ca>
My action: ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content - presentation, along with 

1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that content be rendered with an adjacent indicator when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A)


Cheers,
Jan




-- 
(Mr) Jan Richards, M.Sc.
jrichards@ocad.ca | 416-977-6000 ext. 3957 | fax: 416-977-9844
Inclusive Design Research Centre (IDRC) | http://idrc.ocad.ca/
Faculty of Design | OCAD University

> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org] On
> Behalf Of Jim Allan
> Sent: June 30, 2011 2:42 PM
> To: WAI-ua
> Subject: Minutes: 20 June 2011 User Agent Accessibility Guidelines
> Working Group
> 
> from: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html
> 
> - DRAFT -
> User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
> 30 Jun 2011
> 
> See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-irc
> Attendees
> 
> Present
>     jimallan, jspellman, kimP, MarkH
> Regrets
>     KellyFord, Kelly
> Chair
>     JimAllan
> Scribe
>     jeanne
> 
> Contents
> 
>     Topics
>         Announcements
>         review of Editor's Draft comments from group
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
>         Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/
>         Change to Overview
>     Summary of Action Items
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> [NEW] ACTION: jallan to write patrick about
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action09]
> [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add 4.1.x using the text in the minutes above.
> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action10]
> [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to delete SC 1.2.3 [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action07]
> [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update 1.1.4 with the text above. 1.1.4
> Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of
> content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different
> types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present.
> (Level AA) [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action04]
> [NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.3.5 with text from survey with the
> edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action05]
> [NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update document with new text for 1.1.1 from
> Jan email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-
> ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action03]
> [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update overview with text from minutes, above.
> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action06]
> [NEW] ACTION: jimallan to write patrick about
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action08]
> [NEW] ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered
> Alternative Content - presentation, along with [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action01]
> [NEW] ACTION: JS to add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can
> choose to render any types of alternative content that are present for
> a given element. to the document [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action02]
> 
> <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011
> 
> <jeanneS> scribe: jeanne
> Announcements
> 
> <jeanneS> JA: Attended html5 media call Wed eve. Very technical, no
> comments
> 
> <jeanneS> ... iHenni is now at BBC and commented on WebAIM about SkipNav
> review of Editor's Draft comments from group
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
> 
> <jeanneS> JA: Like the clarity of 1.1.1 - especially "non-text content"
> 
> Re 1.1.1, the new version is actually considerably longer than the
> existing text, but "For each type of non-text content" is a valuable
> addition.
> 
> Re 1.1.2 (was 1.1.3), I disagree with the new text dropping the
> requirement that the indicator needs to be presented "along with" the
> element it refers to, as I don't think it should be adequate to merely
> display a binary indicator on the status bar that says there is at
> least one element on the page with alternative content.
> 
> <jeanneS> Jeanne: Are there examples of 1.1.2?
> 
> <jeanneS> Greg: Opera
> 
> <jeanneS> Greg: entered comments (above)
> 
> <jeanneS> Jim: If you have an audio indicator that sounds if something
> is there.
> 
> Should probably be "presented" rather than "displayed" to accommodate
> non-visual browsers.
> 
> <jeanneS> Greg: so "presented" rather than "displayed"
> 
> <jeanneS> ... we could define "display" as including audio.
> 
> Similarly, I would not consider it adequate for the user agent to have
> a menu item that brings up a dialog with a list of all the elements
> that have alternative content.
> 
> That's why I propose we restore the wording about presenting "along
> with".
> 
> <jeanneS> Mark: Temporarily or spacial adjacent
> 
> <jeanneS> Greg: we have the phrase in the original version, but it was
> omitted in Jan's rewrite
> 
> <jeanneS> Kim: Presented is better than displayed, even if we included
> it in the definition. It is a better mental map,.
> 
> The original version read "1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative
> Content: The user can specify that alternative content indicators be
> rendered along with elements that have alternative content (e.g. an
> icon to indicate an image has a short text alternative). (Level A)"
> What would you change other than changing "alternative content
> indicators" to "indicators"?
> 
> Oh, and Jan's also took out the inline example.
> 
> <Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can
> specify that indicators be presented with rendered content when
> unrendered alternative content is present for the rendered content.
> (Level A)
> 
> 1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can specify
> that indicators be presented along with elements that have alternative
> content.
> 
> 1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can specify
> that alternative content indicators be rendered along with rendered
> elements that have alternative content.
> 
> Re 1.1.3 (was 1.1.2), I think we lost the important concept that it's
> all about changing the display options for a specific element, rather
> than for a content type.
> 
> <Jan> ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered
> Alternative Content - presentation, along with [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action01]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-573 - Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate
> Unrendered Alternative Content - presentation, along with [on Jan
> Richards - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> <JAllan> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to
> render any types of alternative content that are present for a given
> element.
> 
> It was about not telling the browser to show all alt text, but (for
> example) to select an image and tell the browser to show alt text for
> that image.
> 
> Jim's version looks reasonable, at first glance.
> 
> <JAllan> ACTION: JS to add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user
> can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present
> for a given element. to the document [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action02]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-574 - Add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content:
> The user can choose to render any types of alternative content that
> are present for a given element. to the document [on Jeanne F Spellman
> - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> <jeanneS> ACTION: Jeanne to update document with new text for 1.1.1
> from Jan email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-
> ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action03]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-575 - Update document with new text for
> 1.1.1 from Jan email
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
> [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> Re 1.1.4, my only real concern about the rewrite is that it introduces
> the limitation that it's only about alternative content for *non-text
> content*, so it would no longer apply to things like abbreviations.
> 
> The older version was "1.1.4 Rendering Alternative (Enhanced): The
> user can specify the fallback order in which to render alternative
> content. (Level AA)", which applied to text and non-text content with
> alternative content.
> 
> Jan has a good question, whether the title attribute would be
> alternative content, and whether 1.1.2 should require the UA to
> indicate presence of title on text and/or non-text elements.
> 
> <JAllan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced):
> For each type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to
> render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types
> are not present. (Level AA)
> 
> <jeanneS> JA: Our SC references WCAG which says it is AAA.
> 
> <Jan> WCAG also has this defn
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#suppcontentdef
> 
> <Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#multimedia-alt-textdef
> 
> <Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#alt-time-based-mediadef
> 
> I note that "type of content" is not defined, but is used in passing
> as generic types "(such as video or sound)" rather than specific
> element types (e.g. yes for object, no for img). Probably not
> important.
> 
> <Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#text-altdef
> 
> <jeanneS> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced):
> For each type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to
> render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types
> are not present. (Level AA)
> 
> <Jan> (was just pasting in links to alternative type definitions in
> WCAG2)
> 
> <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to update 1.1.4 with the text above. 1.1.4
> Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of
> content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different
> types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present.
> (Level AA) [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action04]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-576 - Update 1.1.4 with the text above.
> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each
> type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render
> different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are
> not present. (Level AA) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].
> Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/
> 
> Here's the new version using <ins> and <del> to indicate where the
> specific changes were:
> 
> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user can
> override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e.
> <del>access key</del><ins>accesskey attribute in HTML</ins>). The user
> must have an option to save the override of user interface keyboard
> shortcuts so that the rebinding persists beyond the current session.
> (Level AA)
> 
> Intent: <del>Content authors may utilize the Accesskey
> attribute</del><ins>Depending on the markup language, content authors
> may be able</ins> to define short cut keys which allow quick access to
> specific elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. <ins>For
> example, in HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define
> these short cut keys.</ins> The author-selected short...
> ... cuts may utilize keystrokes that are unique to their site,
> differing from conventions used, and or familiar, to users of other
> similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
> assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
> consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
> functions across the sites they visit.
> 
> <Jan> ACTION-544 - Rewrite 2.3.5 to be technology agnostic
> 
> <Jan> oops - I meant i agree to ACTION-544 - Rewrite 2.3.5 to be
> technology agnostic
> 
> <jeanneS> ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.3.5 with text from survey with
> the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action05]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-577 - Update 2.3.5 with text from survey
> with the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [on Jeanne F
> Spellman - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> <JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user
> can override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e.
> accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an option to save the
> override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so that the rebinding
> persists beyond the current session. (Level AA)
> 
> <JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may
> be able to define short cut keys which allow change quick access to
> specific elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For
> example, in HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define
> these short cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize
> keystrokes that are unique to their site, differing from...
> 
> <JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other
> similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
> assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
> consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
> functions across the sites they visit.
> 
> <JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user
> can override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e.
> accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an option to save the
> override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so that the rebinding
> persists beyond the current session. (Level AA)
> 
> <JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may
> be able to define short cut keys that allow quick access to specific
> elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For example, in
> HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define these short
> cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize keystrokes that
> are unique to their site, differing from...
> 
> <JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other
> similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
> assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
> consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
> functions across the sites they visit.
> 
> Maybe the title should also be tech neutral, "Allow Override of
> Keyboard Shortcuts", or the like.
> 
> <JAllan> "Allow Override of Content Keybindings"
> 
> <JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Content Keybindings (former 2.1.11) :
> The user can override any recognized author supplied content
> keybinding (i.e. accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an
> option to save the override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so
> that the rebinding persists beyond the current session. (Level AA)
> 
> <JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may
> be able to define short cut keys that allow quick access to specific
> elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For example, in
> HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define these short
> cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize keystrokes that
> are unique to their site, differing from...
> 
> <JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other
> similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
> assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
> consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
> functions across the sites they visit.
> 
> <JAllan> close action-544
> 
> <trackbot> ACTION-544 Rewrite 2.3.5 to be technology agnostic...author
> defined keyboard shortcuts in rendered content closed
> Change to Overview
> 
> <jeanneS> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq3
> 
> <JAllan> support alternative input and output including assistive
> technology
> 
> How about two bullet items:
> 
> * support assistive technology such as alternative input and output
> utilities
> 
> * support the user's choice of input styles, such as keyboard or mouse
> 
> <mhakkinen> support assistive technologies to enable alternative input
> mechanisms and output modalities
> 
> * support multiple input styles, such as keyboard, mouse, and speech
> 
> * be configurable, so the user can adjust it to meet their needs
> 
> * be discoverable, so the user can learn to use it easily
> 
> * be predictable, so the user does not have to react and compensate
> for the user agent behaving in ways they did not expect
> 
> * enable optional self-pacing, for users who need additional time to
> view, read, comprehend, or respond
> 
> * adhere to published conventions where they do not reduce accessibility
> 
> * support assistive technology such as alternative input and output
> utilities
> 
> * support usr's choice of input styles, such as keyboard, mouse, and
> speech
> 
> * support the user's choice of output styles, such as text, graphics,
> and speech
> 
> <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to update overview with text from minutes,
> above. [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action06]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-578 - Update overview with text from
> minutes, above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to delete SC 1.2.3 [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action07]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-579 - Delete SC 1.2.3 [on Jeanne F Spellman
> - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> <JAllan> ACTION: jimallan to write patrick about
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action08]
> 
> <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jimallan
> 
> <jeanneS> [discussion of greg's comments]
> 
> <JAllan> ACTION: jallan to write patrick about
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action09]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-580 - Write patrick about
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [on Jim Allan
> - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> <JAllan> 4.1.x Programmatic Write Access: If the user can modify the
> state or value of a piece of content through the *user interface*
> (e.g. by checking a box or editing a text area), the same degree of
> write access is available programmatically. (Level A) :
> 
> <jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to add 4.1.x using the text in the minutes
> above. [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action10]
> 
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-581 - Add 4.1.x using the text in the
> minutes above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].
> 
> Does this really add anything beyond 4.1.1 and 4.1.2? Not sure.
> 
> (That's re Simon's proposed SC starting "If a User Agent keeps an
> internal representation of the user content...")
> 
> If a platform that does not support a platform accessibility API like
> MSAA, and thus 4.1.1 does not apply, 4.1.2 would require the UA to
> expose information about each element, but would not require it to
> expose information about relationships between them such as any
> *order*. Simon's would do that.
> 
> 
> [End of minutes]
> 
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 30 June 2011 20:34:51 GMT

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