W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > April to June 2011

Minutes: 20 June 2011 User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:41:47 -0500
Message-ID: <BANLkTimJMPgZpPziFCPBEzcEmcu-g1Cf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html

- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
30 Jun 2011

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    jimallan, jspellman, kimP, MarkH
Regrets
    KellyFord, Kelly
Chair
    JimAllan
Scribe
    jeanne

Contents

    Topics
        Announcements
        review of Editor's Draft comments from group
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
        Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/
        Change to Overview
    Summary of Action Items

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jallan to write patrick about
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add 4.1.x using the text in the minutes above.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to delete SC 1.2.3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update 1.1.4 with the text above. 1.1.4
Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of
content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different
types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present.
(Level AA) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.3.5 with text from survey with the
edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to update document with new text for 1.1.1 from
Jan email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update overview with text from minutes, above.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: jimallan to write patrick about
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered
Alternative Content - presentation, along with [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can
choose to render any types of alternative content that are present for
a given element. to the document [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011

<jeanneS> scribe: jeanne
Announcements

<jeanneS> JA: Attended html5 media call Wed eve. Very technical, no comments

<jeanneS> ... iHenni is now at BBC and commented on WebAIM about SkipNav
review of Editor's Draft comments from group
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html

<jeanneS> JA: Like the clarity of 1.1.1 - especially "non-text content"

Re 1.1.1, the new version is actually considerably longer than the
existing text, but "For each type of non-text content" is a valuable
addition.

Re 1.1.2 (was 1.1.3), I disagree with the new text dropping the
requirement that the indicator needs to be presented "along with" the
element it refers to, as I don't think it should be adequate to merely
display a binary indicator on the status bar that says there is at
least one element on the page with alternative content.

<jeanneS> Jeanne: Are there examples of 1.1.2?

<jeanneS> Greg: Opera

<jeanneS> Greg: entered comments (above)

<jeanneS> Jim: If you have an audio indicator that sounds if something is there.

Should probably be "presented" rather than "displayed" to accommodate
non-visual browsers.

<jeanneS> Greg: so "presented" rather than "displayed"

<jeanneS> ... we could define "display" as including audio.

Similarly, I would not consider it adequate for the user agent to have
a menu item that brings up a dialog with a list of all the elements
that have alternative content.

That's why I propose we restore the wording about presenting "along with".

<jeanneS> Mark: Temporarily or spacial adjacent

<jeanneS> Greg: we have the phrase in the original version, but it was
omitted in Jan's rewrite

<jeanneS> Kim: Presented is better than displayed, even if we included
it in the definition. It is a better mental map,.

The original version read "1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative
Content: The user can specify that alternative content indicators be
rendered along with elements that have alternative content (e.g. an
icon to indicate an image has a short text alternative). (Level A)"
What would you change other than changing "alternative content
indicators" to "indicators"?

Oh, and Jan's also took out the inline example.

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can
specify that indicators be presented with rendered content when
unrendered alternative content is present for the rendered content.
(Level A)

1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can specify
that indicators be presented along with elements that have alternative
content.

1.1.3 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can specify
that alternative content indicators be rendered along with rendered
elements that have alternative content.

Re 1.1.3 (was 1.1.2), I think we lost the important concept that it's
all about changing the display options for a specific element, rather
than for a content type.

<Jan> ACTION: JR to Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered
Alternative Content - presentation, along with [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-573 - Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate
Unrendered Alternative Content - presentation, along with [on Jan
Richards - due 2011-07-07].

<JAllan> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to
render any types of alternative content that are present for a given
element.

It was about not telling the browser to show all alt text, but (for
example) to select an image and tell the browser to show alt text for
that image.

Jim's version looks reasonable, at first glance.

<JAllan> ACTION: JS to add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user
can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present
for a given element. to the document [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-574 - Add 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content:
The user can choose to render any types of alternative content that
are present for a given element. to the document [on Jeanne F Spellman
- due 2011-07-07].

<jeanneS> ACTION: Jeanne to update document with new text for 1.1.1
from Jan email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-575 - Update document with new text for
1.1.1 from Jan email
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
[on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].

Re 1.1.4, my only real concern about the rewrite is that it introduces
the limitation that it's only about alternative content for *non-text
content*, so it would no longer apply to things like abbreviations.

The older version was "1.1.4 Rendering Alternative (Enhanced): The
user can specify the fallback order in which to render alternative
content. (Level AA)", which applied to text and non-text content with
alternative content.

Jan has a good question, whether the title attribute would be
alternative content, and whether 1.1.2 should require the UA to
indicate presence of title on text and/or non-text elements.

<JAllan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced):
For each type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to
render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types
are not present. (Level AA)

<jeanneS> JA: Our SC references WCAG which says it is AAA.

<Jan> WCAG also has this defn http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#suppcontentdef

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#multimedia-alt-textdef

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#alt-time-based-mediadef

I note that "type of content" is not defined, but is used in passing
as generic types "(such as video or sound)" rather than specific
element types (e.g. yes for object, no for img). Probably not
important.

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#text-altdef

<jeanneS> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced):
For each type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to
render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types
are not present. (Level AA)

<Jan> (was just pasting in links to alternative type definitions in WCAG2)

<jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to update 1.1.4 with the text above. 1.1.4
Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of
content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different
types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present.
(Level AA) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-576 - Update 1.1.4 with the text above.
1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each
type of content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render
different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are
not present. (Level AA) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].
Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/

Here's the new version using <ins> and <del> to indicate where the
specific changes were:

2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user can
override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e.
<del>access key</del><ins>accesskey attribute in HTML</ins>). The user
must have an option to save the override of user interface keyboard
shortcuts so that the rebinding persists beyond the current session.
(Level AA)

Intent: <del>Content authors may utilize the Accesskey
attribute</del><ins>Depending on the markup language, content authors
may be able</ins> to define short cut keys which allow quick access to
specific elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. <ins>For
example, in HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define
these short cut keys.</ins> The author-selected short...
... cuts may utilize keystrokes that are unique to their site,
differing from conventions used, and or familiar, to users of other
similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
functions across the sites they visit.

<Jan> ACTION-544 - Rewrite 2.3.5 to be technology agnostic

<Jan> oops - I meant i agree to ACTION-544 - Rewrite 2.3.5 to be
technology agnostic

<jeanneS> ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.3.5 with text from survey with
the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-577 - Update 2.3.5 with text from survey
with the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2011-07-07].

<JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user
can override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e.
accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an option to save the
override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so that the rebinding
persists beyond the current session. (Level AA)

<JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may
be able to define short cut keys which allow change quick access to
specific elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For
example, in HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define
these short cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize
keystrokes that are unique to their site, differing from...

<JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other
similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
functions across the sites they visit.

<JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Accesskeys (former 2.1.11) : The user
can override any recognized author supplied content keybinding (i.e.
accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an option to save the
override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so that the rebinding
persists beyond the current session. (Level AA)

<JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may
be able to define short cut keys that allow quick access to specific
elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For example, in
HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define these short
cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize keystrokes that
are unique to their site, differing from...

<JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other
similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
functions across the sites they visit.

Maybe the title should also be tech neutral, "Allow Override of
Keyboard Shortcuts", or the like.

<JAllan> "Allow Override of Content Keybindings"

<JAllan> 2.3.5 Allow Override of Content Keybindings (former 2.1.11) :
The user can override any recognized author supplied content
keybinding (i.e. accesskey attribute in HTML). The user must have an
option to save the override of user interface keyboard shortcuts so
that the rebinding persists beyond the current session. (Level AA)

<JAllan> Intent: Depending on the markup language, content authors may
be able to define short cut keys that allow quick access to specific
elements, actions, or parts of their Web content. For example, in
HTML, the author may use the Accesskey attribute to define these short
cut keys. The author-selected short cuts may utilize keystrokes that
are unique to their site, differing from...

<JAllan> ...conventions used, and or familiar to users of other
similar sites, or sites offering similar functionality. Users of
assistive technologies who rely upon keyboard input may wish to have a
consistent mapping of shortcut keys to similar, or common actions or
functions across the sites they visit.

<JAllan> close action-544

<trackbot> ACTION-544 Rewrite 2.3.5 to be technology agnostic...author
defined keyboard shortcuts in rendered content closed
Change to Overview

<jeanneS> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq3

<JAllan> support alternative input and output including assistive technology

How about two bullet items:

* support assistive technology such as alternative input and output utilities

* support the user's choice of input styles, such as keyboard or mouse

<mhakkinen> support assistive technologies to enable alternative input
mechanisms and output modalities

* support multiple input styles, such as keyboard, mouse, and speech

* be configurable, so the user can adjust it to meet their needs

* be discoverable, so the user can learn to use it easily

* be predictable, so the user does not have to react and compensate
for the user agent behaving in ways they did not expect

* enable optional self-pacing, for users who need additional time to
view, read, comprehend, or respond

* adhere to published conventions where they do not reduce accessibility

* support assistive technology such as alternative input and output utilities

* support usr's choice of input styles, such as keyboard, mouse, and speech

* support the user's choice of output styles, such as text, graphics, and speech

<jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to update overview with text from minutes,
above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-578 - Update overview with text from
minutes, above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].

<jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to delete SC 1.2.3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-579 - Delete SC 1.2.3 [on Jeanne F Spellman
- due 2011-07-07].

<JAllan> ACTION: jimallan to write patrick about
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jimallan

<jeanneS> [discussion of greg's comments]

<JAllan> ACTION: jallan to write patrick about
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-580 - Write patrick about
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110620/results#xq5 [on Jim Allan
- due 2011-07-07].

<JAllan> 4.1.x Programmatic Write Access: If the user can modify the
state or value of a piece of content through the *user interface*
(e.g. by checking a box or editing a text area), the same degree of
write access is available programmatically. (Level A) :

<jeanneS> ACTION: jeanne to add 4.1.x using the text in the minutes
above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-ua-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-581 - Add 4.1.x using the text in the
minutes above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-07-07].

Does this really add anything beyond 4.1.1 and 4.1.2? Not sure.

(That's re Simon's proposed SC starting "If a User Agent keeps an
internal representation of the user content...")

If a platform that does not support a platform accessibility API like
MSAA, and thus 4.1.1 does not apply, 4.1.2 would require the UA to
expose information about each element, but would not require it to
expose information about relationships between them such as any
*order*. Simon's would do that.


[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 30 June 2011 18:42:16 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 30 June 2011 18:42:19 GMT