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Minutes: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 08 Apr 2010

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:39:53 -0500
To: "'WAI-UA list'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <058101cad74a$e104cb60$a30e6220$@edu>
Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html
IRC Log: http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-irc

Attendees

Present: Jim, Kelly, Kim, Mark, Simon, Greg, Jeanne
Regrets
Chair
    KellyFord, JimAllan
Scribe
    allanj

Contents

    * Topics
         1. F2F at TPAC2010: 1-5 Nov. 2010 in Lyon, France
         2. Review survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100406/
         3. proposal 3.6.1
         4. 3.6.x
         5. 3.8.1
         6. writing implementation 3.1.3 and 3.1.4
         7. writing implementation of 3.3.1
         8. Action-178 Focus definitions -
         9. Action-178 Focus definitions -
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html
    * Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 08 April 2010

<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html

<kford> zakim drip item 5

<kford> I entered the agenda

<scribe> scribe: allanj

<kford> Zakim: zakim, code?

<scribe> scribenick: allanj
F2F at TPAC2010: 1-5 Nov. 2010 in Lyon, France

js: discussion of f2f in lyon. deadline in april 16

kf: poses question?

gl: how many can go, how much work without a quorum

sh: will be in orlando.

kf: put on list and resolve for next week.

gl: also conference calling.

<scribe> ACTION: js to write to list about f2f [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Write to list about f2f [on Jeanne Spellman
- due 2010-04-15].

kf: who can go

jim, mark, jeanne, greg, kelly(?)

action-343 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-343 Write to list about f2f closed

sh: if meeting in later part of week, could call in.

<scribe> ACTION: jallan to complete f2f survey [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-344 - Complete f2f survey [on Jim Allan - due
2010-04-15].
Review survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100406/

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100406/results

discussion of 3.3.2 (AA)

gl: needs work, not understandable.

sh: if UA generates internal representation to display, it needs to share
with the user or AT

gl: how is this to be exposed. some alternative interface?

sh: if some internal representation not in the dom, the UA generates some
representation, needs to expose it.

mh: exposed how? example

sh: could put in the dom. some plugins don't have a dom, but could put it in
the html dom

gl: exposing for AT not visually

sh: yes for AT, so the visual representation is exposed to the AT
... music files, just flat information separated by colon or dash. when open
in winamp the player creates a navigable structure based on title, author,
length, etc.

<Greg> Sounds like Simon intends this to mean that any hierarchical
relationship rendered visually must be exposed programmatically. It can be
exposed via the DOM or other means. This applies to relationships that the
UA works out on its own as well those that are specified in the source
document.

<Greg> (I should have said "rendered" rather than "rendered visually".)

sh: html5 allows new datatypes or semantics needs to expose

<scribe> ACTION: sh to rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - sh

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username
(eg. sharper, shayes)

<scribe> ACTION: sharper to rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-345 - Rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [on
Simon Harper - due 2010-04-15].
proposal 3.6.1

<kford> Patrick comment the distinction between option and ability here is
going in the right direction, but i fear that still means that a browser/UA
needs to effectively have

<kford> to be able to do the opposite (i.e. keep size of rendered text the
same, regardless of scaling) which again i don't think is implemented. the
current behaviour

<kford> (that by default size distinction is maintained on rescaling) is
default, so saying that the user has the ability also seems to imply that
we'd want this

<kford> default behaviour to be switchable? 

<kford> Kelly Ford

kf: what does this mean?

gl: when you want to make the small text big, the big text can become too
big to be unusable

mh: if I look at 3.6.2 in isolation - 'preserved distinctions' does the user
also have the ability to NOT preserve disctintions
... need some statement to remove all distinctions based on size

gl: in the SC or implementation

mh: in the SC. how important to remove distinctions.

gl: this is covered in 3.6.x in the survey.

mh: need to clarify in intent about setting min/max to be the same to remove
distinctions

kf: there is zoom (scale everything) and textsize (scale only text)
... can set base text size.3.6.2 is important. distinctions are important.
how important is setting everything to same size.

gl: if low vision, then headings will be too large to read

JA: also implementation issues. does any browser do this---all one font
size?

kf: back to original 3.6.2. if in isolation, MH you ok with it.
... gl wording change

<KimPatch> I think within is clearer

<scribe> ACTION: js to add "3.6.2 Preserve Distinctions: The user has the
ability to preserve distinctions in the size of rendered text when that text
is rescaled (e.g., headers continue to be larger than body text) within
absolute limitations imposed by the platform. (Level A)" to draft [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-346 - Add "3.6.2 Preserve Distinctions: The user
has the ability to preserve distinctions in the size of rendered text when
that text is rescaled (e.g., headers continue to be larger than body text)
within absolute limitations imposed by the platform. (Level A)" to draft [on
Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].

<scribe> ACTION: gl to write IER for 3.6.2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-347 - Write IER for 3.6.2 [on Greg Lowney - due
2010-04-15].
3.6.x

kf: want user to have ability to remove disctintions

gl: new wording is more flexible allows setting of min/max

js: different between base in percentages, the jump in size is greater as
you get larger

kf: objections from 3.6.2 are related 3.6.x
... should this be a AAA.

gl: would prefer AA, but can live with the group decision.

mh: ok with it as a AA. explain issues in the intent and it would address my
concerns

<scribe> ACTION: ja to write to the list about 3.6.x address concerns in the
implementation [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-348 - Write to the list about 3.6.x address
concerns in the implementation [on Jim Allan - due 2010-04-15].
3.8.1

gl: my comments are to add clarity

mh: see where it would fit.
writing implementation 3.1.3 and 3.1.4

<scribe> ACTION: JS add 3.8.1 IER "The objective of these success criteria
is to allow the user to customize the specified speech characteristics to
settings that allow the user to perceive and understand the audio
information. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-349 - Add 3.8.1 IER "The objective of these
success criteria is to allow the user to customize the specified speech
characteristics to settings that allow the user to perceive and understand
the audio information. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].

Users may need to increase the volume to a level within their range of
perception for example. Users may also wish to increase the rate of
synthesized speech presentation because they can understand it at a rate
faster than the default setting of the user agent.

Success criterion 3.8.1 covers the characteristics that users most commonly
need to adjust and that are adjustable in most technologies, while success
criterion 3.8.2 covers characteristics that are less widely altered and less
widely supported.

to implementation draft.

<scribe> new proposal 3.1.3 3.1.3 Choose and Render Alternative Content: The
user can determine which forms of alternative content are available for an
element, select between them, and have them rendered according to the
following.synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions,
audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as their
associated audio tracks and...

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: visual tracks, and

non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, long
descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original rendered
content.".

kf: any objections?

none

<scribe> ACTION: js to update 3.1.3 to be "synchronized alternatives for
time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be
rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and visual
tracks, and [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-350 - Update 3.1.3 to be "synchronized
alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign
language) can be rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks
and visual tracks, and [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].

non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, long
descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original rendered
content.

<scribe> ACTION: gl to write IER for 3.1.3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-351 - Write IER for 3.1.3 [on Greg Lowney - due
2010-04-15].
writing implementation of 3.3.1

<scribe> ACTION: ja to write IER for 3.1.4 (modify 3.1.2) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action11]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-352 - Write IER for 3.1.4 (modify 3.1.2) [on Jim
Allan - due 2010-04-15].

gl: can not understand this?

<Greg> Not sure what this is supposed to mean. Is it saying that the UA has
to always keep the column header in view, even when the user is scrolling
down through a table? The same with a heading elements (h1, etc.)?

<scribe> ACTION: kf to write IER for 3.3.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action12]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-353 - Write IER for 3.3.1 [on Kelly Ford - due
2010-04-15].
Action-178 Focus definitions -

<kford> zakim close item 3

<kford> zakim close item 3
Action-178 Focus definitions -
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html

kim: regularized definitions. some may go away. need to review the document
to make sure the words in SC and GL match definitions
... also added new defintions, and normalized with ISO and ANSI definitions

kf: need a survey for comments, then review document to reconcile

<scribe> ACTION: ja to put
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html in
survey for next week [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action13]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-354 - Put
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html in
survey for next week [on Jim Allan - due 2010-04-15].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: gl to write IER for 3.1.3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: gl to write IER for 3.6.2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: ja to put
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html in
survey for next week [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: ja to write IER for 3.1.4 (modify 3.1.2) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: ja to write to the list about 3.6.x address concerns in the
implementation [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: jallan to complete f2f survey [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS add 3.8.1 IER "The objective of these success criteria is
to allow the user to customize the specified speech characteristics to
settings that allow the user to perceive and understand the audio
information. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: js to add "3.6.2 Preserve Distinctions: The user has the
ability to preserve distinctions in the size of rendered text when that text
is rescaled (e.g., headers continue to be larger than body text) within
absolute limitations imposed by the platform. (Level A)" to draft [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: js to update 3.1.3 to be "synchronized alternatives for
time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be
rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and visual
tracks, and [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: js to write to list about f2f [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: kf to write IER for 3.3.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: sh to rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: sharper to rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action04]
 
[End of minutes]



Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 8 April 2010 18:40:31 GMT

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