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User Agent Working Group Telecon - 11 June 2009

From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:47:21 +0100
Message-Id: <831DE872-50D3-44C3-9E29-B2F237C8433B@manchester.ac.uk>
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
HTML Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html

IRC Log: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-irc

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/ 
0090.html

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: GL to work GL and JS to write a definition of Keyboard  
Command [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua- 
minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JA create 4.5.6 restore to default settings  
accessibility. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to reword 4.5.4 Accessibility Portable Profiles:  
Sets of preferences are stored as separate files (allowing them to be  
transmitted electronically). to reflect ISO wording. [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update 4.5.1 to "The user has the option to  
change settings that impact accessibility." [recorded in http:// 
www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update document to update 4.5.2 to " 4.5.2  
Persistent Accessibility Settings: User agent accessibility  
preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) " [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]


- DRAFT -

User Agent Working Group Telecon - 11 June 2009

11 Jun 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Allan_James, Harper_Simon, Spellman_Jeanne, Swan_Henny,  
Hakkinen_Mark, Patch_kim, Lowney_Greg
Regrets
Jan_Richards, Kelly_Ford
Chair
Allan_James
Scribe
Harper_Simon
Contents

Topics
1. 4.1.9 Override of UI Keyboard Commands
Guideline 4.5 Configure and Store accessibility preference settings.
skipping to ISSUE-4 Move 4.5.3 to Level AA
move back to 'Guideline 4.5 Configure and Store accessibility  
preference settings' excluding the OLD 4.5.3 (NEW 4.5.4)
lock down current editors draft by 25 June for publishing new public
Survey for 6/4 meeting
Summary of Action Items




<AllanJ> working draft in July
HS: comments on new Opera UA technology - Opera Turbo (for Instance)  
- Speed dial thumb nails etc
... Resizable search field + spell checker and auto updates. Lots of  
addition and svg improvements.
... have comprehensive list of feedback on accessibility in terms v 10
... Largest Accessibility change is Opera Turbo - better access if  
location based or compromised network.
... New accessibility stuff is not in this version but is upcoming in  
the next (hopefully).
KP: familiar with mouse-less browsing in Firefox - numbers all links.  
if opera did this it will enable all speech.
HS: Any feedback much appreciated.
<Henny> hennys@opera.com
s/Ant/Any
<Henny> http://www.opera.com/browser/next/
<KimPatch> Mouseless Browsing addon for Firefox https:// 
addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/879?id=879&application=firefox
GL: Should we cover Mouseless Browsing and the like in the guidelines.
SH: Is this not included in 4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can  
use the keyboard to navigate from group to group of focusable items  
and to traverse forwards and backwards all of the focusable items  
within each group. Groups include but are not limited to toolbars,  
panels, and user agent extensions. (Level AA)
All: discussion re feature list comparison.
JA: Could be an addendum to the technical specification.
<KimPatch> Customize your Web https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/ 
firefox/addon/11759
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090527/results
1. 4.1.9 Override of UI Keyboard Commands

<Greg> #70. (Re 4.1.9) Is 4.1.9 actually Level A?: I ask because  
elsewhere the success criteria for a guideline are sorted according  
to Level, but here 4.1.9 (Level A) follows 4.1.8 (Level AA). Is this  
a temporary artifact that will be fixed when items are renumbered? Or  
is 4.1.9 miscategorized as A when it should be AA? (Priority: 3 Low)  
(Type: Clarify)
<Greg> #71. (Re 4.1.9) Is overriding all UI keyboard commands too  
broad?: I'm concerned because I'm not sure that any browsers allow  
the user to override *all* of the platform's UI keyboard  
commands" (e.g. ALT to activate the menu bar, CTRL+O for open, CTRL+A  
for select all, Tab for sequential navigation, etc.). Is it possible  
that the current wording is unintentionally broad? (Priority: 1 High)...
<Greg> ...(Type: Clarify)
<Greg> This still needs to be addressed.
<Greg> #72. (Re 4.1.9 **) "Platform" vs. "Operating Environment": In  
some places the document uses "platform" (e.g. 4.1.6) but in others  
users "operating environment" (e.g. 4.1.9) for what appears to be the  
same thing. Please consider normalizing the terminology. (Priority: 3  
Low) (Type: Formatting)
<Greg> #73. (Re 4.1.9 **) Define "override" keyboard shortcut  
bindings: 4.1.9, 4.1.10 and 4.1.11 require the user be able to  
"override" keyboard shortcuts, but don't define the term. 4.1.9 and  
4.1.11 refer to "rebinding" and so requires the user to be able to  
assign new shortcuts that replace the default ones, whereas 4.1.10  
does not mention this and so implies that the user only needs to be  
able...
<Greg> ...to remove default shortcuts, but the ability to reassign or  
assign new shortcut keys is presumably left optional. For the goal of  
improved accessibility there are really three potential features: (a)  
the ability to delete existing shortcuts is useful when they conflict  
with shortcuts used by assistive technology; (b) the ability to  
reassign shortcuts for functions that already have them...
<Greg> ...accomplishes that goal PLUS retains the ability of  
shortcuts to reduce the number of keystrokes and/or steps required to  
execute an operation; (c) the ability to assign new shortcuts to  
functions that don't have them by default accomplishes both of those  
goals PLUS allows the user to further reduce the number of keystrokes  
or steps they have to enter. One way of handling these diverse...
<Greg> ...choices would be to make the first option be Level A, the  
second Level AA, and the third Level AAA. (Priority: 2 Medium) (Type:  
Clarify)
<Greg> This still needs to be addressed.
<Greg> #74. (Re 4.1.9 **) Normalize "keyboard shortcuts" vs.  
"keyboard shortcut bindings": 4.1.9 uses the term "keyboard shortcut  
binding" while 4.1.10 uses "keyboard shortcut". I assume they are  
meant to refer to the same thing, so the document should standardize  
on one phrasing. (Priority: 3 Low) (Type: Clarify)
Proposed: 4.1.9 Override of UI Keyboard Commands: The user can  
override any keyboard shortcut binding for the user agent user  
interface except for conventional bindings for the operating  
environment (e.g., for access to an open command). The rebinding  
options must include single-key and key-plus-modifier keys if  
available in the operating environment. This does not prohibit a user  
agent from supporting user override of conventional bindings for the  
operating pl
5 accept / 3 discuss
GL: not everything address - see above (especially #71)
JR: Should this be AA? It is P2 in UAAG 1.0.
JS: The last sentence is still not clear. It took me about 4 times  
through to understand what it means. recommend inserting before the  
sentence beginning "the rebinding options":
This does not prohibit the user agent from allowing user override of  
the conventional bindings.
<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon
<scribe> scribeNick: sharper
JS: Specifics (of keyboard commands) should be included in the  
glossary - otherwise gets very confusing in guidelines.
GL: move details to glossary if clarify increased.
JA+KP: like JS proposal - GL: agrees
RESOLUTION: GL: to work on 4.1.9 some more - JS to assist.
<jeanne> ACTION: GL to work GL and JS to write a definition of  
Keyboard Command [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua- 
minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Work GL and JS to write a definition  
of Keyboard Command [on Greg Lowney - due 2009-06-18].
Guideline 4.5 Configure and Store accessibility preference settings.

5 accept / 2 discuss / 1 neutral
JR: I'm a bit concerned by 4.5.1. Because it refers to something  
everyone does anyway (make preference setting configurable), I think  
people might interpret as requiring everything that impacts  
accessibility to be controlled by a preference setting.
GL: Please see comments at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c- 
wai-ua/2009AprJun/0094.html
DP - Neutral: we have to study the security implications of the  
portability section.
skipping to ISSUE-4 Move 4.5.3 to Level AA

<Greg> FYI ISO's equivalent wording is "8.2.6 Provide capability to  
use preference settings across locations: Software should permit  
users to transfer their preference settings easily onto a compatible  
system."
2 accept / 1 change / discuss 3 / neutral 2
JR - discuss: Maybe we could clarify as follows:
Portable Profiles: Sets of preferences are stored such that they can  
be transferred between different installations of the same user  
agent. (Level AA)
KP-discuss: Accessible profiles sometimes take quite a bit of time to  
set. Making an accessible profile portable means you can access  
multiple computers more easily and more easily work on other people's  
computers. This is a basic in some jobs. Ease of access to a given  
computer is a showstopper in many situations.
<Greg> The ISO version is Level 3 (AAA)
JA-Discuss: current rewrite of this - see #2 (4.5.4) above has this  
as AAA.
When this was originally written, the concept was - user creates a  
mysettings.profile in UAx, that file can be used on other UAx on  
other computers. But would not be required to work with UAy or any  
other UA.
The comment above, seems to indicate that the profile would/might  
work in all UA cross platform. HTML, CSS, and JS can hardly do that  
now. I agree that cross browser/platform profile usage is beyond our  
charter. Perhaps we need some language to limit the profile to  
individual UAs and perhaps on a given platform.
<proposed>
4.5.4 Accessibility Portable Profiles: Sets of preferences are stored  
as separate files (allowing them to be transmitted electronically).  
Note: These profiles may be usable only with the brand(?) of user  
agent that created it (Level AAA)
GL-change:
Per my comment #7 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/ 
2009AprJun/0094.html, I suggest harmonizing with ISO 9241-171 by  
adopting their wording or a close equivalent. ISO says "8.2.6 Provide  
capability to use preference settings across locations [ANSI Level 3]:
Software should permit users to transfer their preference settings  
easily onto a compatible system.", and it provides a number of  
important accompanying notes and examples.
RESOLUTION: JA to reword to more closely follow ISO - put on survey  
and take a vote.
<AllanJ> ACTION: JA to reword 4.5.4 Accessibility Portable Profiles:  
Sets of preferences are stored as separate files (allowing them to be  
transmitted electronically). to reflect ISO wording. [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-195 - Reword 4.5.4 Accessibility Portable  
Profiles: Sets of preferences are stored as separate files (allowing  
them to be transmitted electronically). to reflect ISO wording. [on  
Jim Allan - due 2009-06-18].
RESOLUTION: ISSUE-4 on tracker needs to be closed when we vote.
move back to 'Guideline 4.5 Configure and Store accessibility  
preference settings' excluding the OLD 4.5.3 (NEW 4.5.4)

JA: Any Objections?
GL-Discuss: Please see comments at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/ 
Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0094.html
JR-Discuss: I'm a bit concerned by 4.5.1. Because it refers to  
something everyone does anyway (make preference setting  
configurable), I think people might interpret as requiring everything  
that impacts accessibility to be controlled by a preference setting.
<Greg> My comments on 4.5.x are at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/ 
Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0094.html
All: Discussion around 4.5.1
<AllanJ> Proposed: 4.5.1 The user has the option to change settings  
that impact accessibility.
JA: KP email - change to ... The user has the option to changes  
settings that impact accessibility.
RESOLUTION: 4.5.1 The user has the option to change settings that  
impact accessibility.
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 4.5.1 to "The user has the option to  
change settings that impact accessibility." [recorded in http:// 
www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-196 - Update 4.5.1 to "The user has the  
option to change settings that impact accessibility." [on Jeanne  
Spellman - due 2009-06-18].
4.5.2 Persistent Accessibility Settings: User agent accessibility  
preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A)
Suggested by JA + GL
RESOLUTION: Adopted - 4.5.2 Persistent Accessibility Settings: User  
agent accessibility preference settings persist between sessions.  
(Level A)
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update document to update 4.5.2 to " 4.5.2  
Persistent Accessibility Settings: User agent accessibility  
preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) " [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-197 - Update document to update 4.5.2 to "  
4.5.2 Persistent Accessibility Settings: User agent accessibility  
preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) " [on Jeanne  
Spellman - due 2009-06-18].
GL: we need to restore to the defaults
<AllanJ> ACTION: JA create 4.5.6 restore to default settings  
accessibility. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-198 - Create 4.5.6 restore to default  
settings accessibility. [on Jim Allan - due 2009-06-18].
RESOLUTION: JA: Agreed, will create for next time and add to survey.
GL: Suggests Harmonise 4.5.3 Accessibility User Profiles: The user  
can save and retrieve multiple sets of user agent preference  
settings. (Level AA) to ISO wording.
<Greg> Here is wording from ISO 9241-171:
<Greg> 8.2.5 Provide user-preference profiles
<Greg> Software should enable users to create, save, edit and recall  
profiles of preference settings, including input
<Greg> and output characteristics, without having to carry out any  
restart that would cause a change of state or data.
<Greg> NOTE 1 For systems that provide access for multiple users,  
such as library systems, conversion back to a default
<Greg> profile can be advisable.
<Greg> NOTE 2 It is often useful to be able to access the preference  
settings over a network. Doing this in a secure way would
<Greg> preserve privacy especially for people who are worried about  
revealing the fact that they have a disability.
<Greg> NOTE 3 It is preferable to minimize the need to restart the  
system or application in order for changes in user interface
<Greg> settings to become effective.
<Greg> EXAMPLE 1 Platform software allows each user to save global  
settings for font size, sound volume, and pointercontrol
<Greg> settings that apply everywhere on the system.
<Greg> EXAMPLE 2 A software application allows users to configure and  
save settings for font size and style within a
<Greg> particular window.
<Greg> EXAMPLE 3 The profile for a public library system is modified  
for the needs of a current user but returns to default
<Greg> values when that user is finished.
<Greg> EXAMPLE 4 For a person completing an on-line process who has  
to make adjustments to
<Greg> the accessibility feature to
<Greg> reduce errors, restarting the operating system or the user  
agent would cause loss of work.
RESOLUTION: NOT RESOLVED CONTINUE NEXT TIME...
lock down current editors draft by 25 June for publishing new public

Cursory - looks as though not.
Survey for 6/4 meeting

HS: Can do any
KP: can do East Coast
JA: East Coast?
GL: East Coast OK as long as it is in Q4
http://www.accessgrid.org/
http://www.accessgrid.org/map
JA: Some Good Interest already.
JS: No West coast Responsibility
RESOLUTION: UNRESOLVED - To Be Discussed.
http://www.sigaccess.org/assets09/
JS: We need to give 8 weeks notice.
JA: So August / September
Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: GL to work GL and JS to write a definition of Keyboard  
Command [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua- 
minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JA create 4.5.6 restore to default settings  
accessibility. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to reword 4.5.4 Accessibility Portable Profiles:  
Sets of preferences are stored as separate files (allowing them to be  
transmitted electronically). to reflect ISO wording. [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update 4.5.1 to "The user has the option to  
change settings that impact accessibility." [recorded in http:// 
www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update document to update 4.5.2 to " 4.5.2  
Persistent Accessibility Settings: User agent accessibility  
preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) " [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 11 June 2009 18:47:56 GMT

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