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minutes: UA WG Weekly Telecon 2008-08-28

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:48:02 +0100
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Message-Id: <20080828194444.M37217@hicom.net>

aloha!

minutes from today's User Agent WG weekly teleconference are available
online as html:

http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html

as an IRC log:

http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc

and as plain text following my signature; as usual, please provide
any feedback, corrections, mis-attributions, mistakes or clarifications
by replying-to this announcement on-list...

note that 4 resolutions were logged during the 28 August call:

* RESOLUTION 1: Remove redundant 4.1.9
* RESOLUTION 2: accept JR's verbiage for 4.1.5
* RESOLUTION 3: update list for 4.1.7
* RESOLUTION 4: change point d0 to "information management functions"

and that a further resolution WOULD have been logged had the scribe
not been so slow on the draw:

   proposed RESOLUTION for 4.1.9: definition of "Important Command
   Functions" Important Command Functions: Important command functions
   are available in a single keystroke; e.g., related to navigation,
   display, content, information management, etc.

in addition, the following 6 action items were assigned during today's
call:

   [NEW] ACTION: JS will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove 4.1.9
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action01]

   [NEW] ACTION: JS Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new wording for
   4.1.7 [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action03]

   [NEW] ACTION: JS Update 4.1 to include the wording above for 4.1.5
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action02]

   [NEW] ACTION: JS to update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for 4.1.9
   Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related
   to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are
   available in a single keystroke. [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action04]

   [NEW] ACTION: JR to propose new wording for 4.1.10 and 4.1.11
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action05]

   [NEW] ACTION: Gregory - post Access Module concerns to UA list
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action06]
   W3C

thanks to jim for scribing when i spoke -- you will be with us in 
spirit the next 2 weeks, gregory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                   - DRAFT -

                       User Agent Weekly Teleconference

28 Aug 2008

   Agenda
   [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0120.html]

   See also: IRC log
   [http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc]


Attendees

   Present
          Jeanne, allanj, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy, Kelly_Ford, Jan

   Regrets
          Alan, Simon_Harper, MarkH

   Chair
          Jim

   Scribe
          oedipus

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Administrivia
         2. JA's Action Item to update 4.1.9
         3. JR Review of 4.1.5
         4. Review of 4.1 and 4.7
         5. 4.1.8
         6. review 4.1.10
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________



   <AllanJ> title: UAWG conference call

   ok, but the one thing holding it up as far as process is concerned is
   the lack of the answer to the question: "how to signify that a
   keybinding has changed when the character which indicated the
   keybinding is no longer valid" and are looking everywhere for
   assistance in solving that problem, which is something we've addressed
   in the past

   <AllanJ> are you saying, the users keyboard does not have the author
   supplied key, so the UA makes a substitution, and how to communicate
   that to the user

   that as well as the scenario where a user has rebound the key, but
   would like reassurance and a reminder of the keybinding through some
   sort of indicator

   <AllanJ> yes that is an issue. It will come up when we discuss 4.1.10

   great!

   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0120.html

Administrivia

   JA: what is trackbot

   JS: result of an action item from several weeks ago - asked to set up
   tracking system for UAWG - done tuesday - trackbot looks for keywords,
   such as "ACTION: " and then assigns action to the person and a due
   date attached, with email to list
   ... will pick up issues in subject lines on list which will be added
   to the issue or action item

   <jeanne> instructions for trackbot
   http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

   JS: more tightly integrated with mailing list agendas and IRC

   GJR: each person should be able to bookmark a "My Tracker" link

   <jeanne> The main page for Tracker is
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

   JA: haven't heard from alanC -
   ... agenda - finish GL 4.1

   JB: discussion last week?

   JA: great success
   ... leftovers are action items that had to be re-branched
   ... 4 action items to deal with - hopefully resolve last 4 things had
   issue with last week, and then 4.1 issues and 3 more SCs

   JB: circulation for feedback to browser devs who haven't shown up as
   regularly

   JA: send to them individually?

   JB: relook into it today - may be better to get draft published first
   and then have people review that

   JS: Kelly had action to ping Microsoft employees, and he reported back
   on that on-list

   JB: need to ensure getting perspective of developers

JA's Action Item to update 4.1.9

   JA: got a bit confused - tried to update and rewrite - update is 4.1.9
   re-writen and put into 4.1.2 so should be tabled and all comments
   ported to 4.1.10
   ... 4.1.9 - precedence of keyboard processing discussed last week;
   haven't decided anything about user configuration and persistence that
   belong to 4.1.10
   ... reviewed lots of discussion and minutes and discovered that 4.1.9
   had been rewritten and included in 4.1.2

   JB: so unintended redundancy

   JA: caught and fused last week

   JB: today examine in purer form

   JA: voted and approved 4.1.2 last week - remove 4.1.9

   JB: objections?

   KF: no

   JA: no

   GJR: no

   JB: JA, you are sure is covered?

   JA: yes

   JB: remove it then

   RESOLUTION: Remove redundant 4.1.9

   proposed ACTION: Jeanne - remove redundant 4.1.9

   JA: JR to review 4.5

   <jeanne> ACTION: JS will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove 4.1.9
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove
   4.1.9 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04].

   JR: 4.1.5

JR Review of 4.1.5

   <AllanJ>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0125.html

   JR: sent post to list; concern last week was that was too difficult to
   read; tried to simplify -
   ... quotes from post cited directly above
   ... concern too visually oriented so used "display"
   ... not thrilled with mashing together chrome/UI keyboard commands
   with others
   ... bothers me because standard in windows to display keyboard
   commands for UI, but not standard to display keyboard commands in
   content

   JA: 2 that said same thing - 1 for content, 1 for UI - merged them
   ... comments?

   JB: what would liked def of recognized say?

   JR: differentiate HTML controls with control done in AJAX that grabs
   keyboard shortcuts and UA doesn't know it is doing that

   JB: plain english version?

   JA: use "recognize" in many checkpoints - issue: what UA knows about
   and what UA doesn't know about;
   ... in UAAG 1.0 whole set of events that UA doesn't know about

   JR: "recognized" is term in UAAG1 - didn't uniformly apply term where
   needed to be applied

   JA: 2 issues: JR did his tersification - have that to decide; JR also
   raised concern over conflation of issues (UI and content in same gl)

   JB: looking through what was dropped - "close proximity"
   "presentation" - "display with associated controls" a VERY good
   improvement - more understandable
   ... no problem tying together aviable UI and content controls -
   willing to await feedback
   ... concern: easily discoverable with AT is ok, but able to be
   activated with single keystroke might be that one has to jump through
   3 hoops to do that - what is history of dropping able to be activated
   with single keystroke? too extreme for developers?
   ... happy that abandoning note verbiage - seems gratuitous and
   over-proscriptive
   ... able to be activated with single keystroke - nothing about
   "readily activatable" in this

   JR: dropped "single keystroke" because overly proscriptive - if UA has
   setting ok, but not always the case - let UA set options the way they
   set options

   JB: having problem parsing JR's comment

   JR: throughout doc say "users have option for x" - can mean go into
   mode or go into Tools > Options > Accessibility and turn a11y options
   on

   JB: understand JR's point now

   JA: kelly?

   KF: listening mode right now

   JB: no other issues with provisions

   JS: alright with that - how does play out for speech input user? a bit
   of concern, but think would be fine

   JA: straw poll to see if ok with JR's wording - "user has the option
   to have direct keyboard command displayed..."

   <AllanJ> 4.1.5 User has the option to have any *recognized* direct
   keyboard

   <AllanJ> commands displayed with their associated controls.

   JB: tersification and simplification desireable

   JS: like it

   <AllanJ> +1

   JB: is understandable

   JA: nicely done, jan

   <jeanne> =1

   <KFord> good stuff.

   KF: good

   GJR: plus 1

   JA: send to access board - key thing stuck on last year

   RESOLUTION: accept JR's verbiage for 4.1.5

Review of 4.1 and 4.7

   <jeanne> ACTION: JS Update 4.1 to include the wording above for 4.1.5
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Update 4.1 to include the wording above
   for 4.1.5 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04].

   KF: how to consolidate and whether to consolidate
   ... think we need them both in the end, because they serve 2 separate
   purposes
   ... 4.1 says "do everything from keyboard" but doesn't say needs to be
   discoverable from kbd
   ... 4.7 is about discoverability
   ... 4.1.1 could end up with UA with hotkeys but no discoverability
   method

   JA: interesting...

   KF: did a deep data dive - may be changing former opinioin

   JA: had action item in july to review 4.1.1, 4.1.6 and 4.1.7 -- at
   time, decided that 4.1.7 handled by 4.1.1 so should be removed

   JR: talked about 4.1.7 last week - important notification as kelly
   said

   JA: question is: are we fine in leaving it?

   KF: yes

   JR: yes

   JA: plus 1

   <jeanne> +1

   GJR: plus 1

   JA: good distinction

   JB: need to see everything in context to declare opinion

   <AllanJ> status document
   http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/status41.htm

   JB: today's stuff not available in context, but only as individual
   bits to consider

   JA: status document from last week - what i've been able to pull out
   of all agenda and action items, etc. - here was wording, here is
   status, for 4.1
   ... come full circle - remove 4.1.7 because included, but issues
   raised last week, KF reviewed and presented arguments as to why to
   include

   JS: rather than keep with different title - would clarify 2 are
   related if state 4.1.1 keyboard operation and 4.1.7 keyboard
   operations enhanced

   JR: only problem is when WCAG uses "enhanced" spread over A and
   double-A, but like the idea -

   JS: keyboard operation navigation?

   KF: keyboard navigation, full stop

   JA: operation in 4.1.1, in 4.1.7 granular - specifically keyboard
   navigation

   GJR: plus 1

   <jeanne> +1

   <AllanJ> +1

   JA: do we change name from UI interface navigation to keyboard
   navigation and leave text as is?

   GJR: plus 1

   <AllanJ> 4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can use the keyboard to
   traverse all of the controls forwards and backwards, including
   controls in floating toolbars, panels, and user agent extensions using
   the navigation conventions of the platform (e.g., via "tab",
   "shift-tab", etc. ")

   JB: review what we have: 4.1 - ensure full keyboard access; 4.1.1 is
   keyboard operation; 4.1.2 lacks a title; 4.1.3 no keyboard trap; 4.1.4
   separate presentation, 4.1.5. UA keyboard commands; 4.1.x.
   content-derived keyboard commands; 4.1.6 conventions, 4.1.7 navigation
   ... problem: no consistency in structure/syntax for these items - most
   noun phrases, some verbs
   ... no real objections at this point, but will need to align titling
   in document when more stability

   <jeanne> 4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can use the keyboard to
   traverse all of the controls forwards and backwards, including
   controls in floating toolbars, panels, and user agent extensions using
   the navigation conventions of the platform (e.g., via "tab",
   "shift-tab", etc. ")

   JB: no objections to keyboard navigation for 4.1.7

   JR: going to get new version of this reflecting last week's and this
   week's decisions

   JA: will do that

   JS: i will update them all

   JA: THANK YOU!

4.1.8

   <jeanne> ACTION: JS Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new wording for
   4.1.7 [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new
   wording for 4.1.7 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04].

   <KFord> 4.1.8 Direct keyboard commands in the form of single key
   access with or without modifiers are provided to use primary user
   agent functionality for the following classes of operations where the
   user agent offers such functionality and the operating environment
   supports appropriate keybord access:

   <KFord> (a) navigation related functions (e.g., back/forward within
   the user navigation history for the current browsing session, enter a
   URI for a new resource, stop/refresh the loading of a resource, etc.)
   (b) display-related functions (e.g., increase/decrease text size,
   volume, etc.) (c) content related functions (move focus to
   next/previous enabled element in document order, activate the content
   item with focus, scroll the viewed content by a measure appropriate to
   the

   JS: resolved to update list for 4.1.7

   <AllanJ> link for 4.1.8
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0122.html

   RESOLUTION: update list for 4.1.7

   KF: 4.1.8 listed very specific features
   ... new version broke down, but didn't list features
   ... revised further to break into different classes of features some
   of which are already there, some of which i added
   ... there are a few different classes of things one can do with UA -
   attempt to reflect that; would include all definitions
   ... is this finished, or still half-baked?

   JR: getting pretty detailed - but not sure catching everything
   ... if media player, play stop and fast forward should be covered, but
   am not sure if falls under navigation

   JA: still cogitating

   GJR: trying to cogitate

   KF: if you have something important to do in UA, ensure easy to do in
   UA with one keystrok
   ... quantifying what is important in UA is key factor, then

   JS: like what KF has done; grouped well but left open for different
   types of UAs is big improvement over list

   KF: question for UA is: control of display of information - am i
   missing other interactive classes?

   JR: wondering if trying to be specific on intervention classes is too
   inclusive may miss one, but if we keep high-level, the essence is
   single key access which is making things quick to get to; if offer
   mouse way of moving, but not keyboard way, have to explain why not

   KF: impossible - mouse is freeform - can't have single key access to
   all mouse functionalities
   ... better not be more than 3 or 4 keystrokes at worse - what are
   highest profile things one can do

   JB: back up a bit - enumeration of classes important, but first need
   to remove some unecessary text in draft provision itself - hard to
   evaluate base requirement
   ... want to read through the wording suggested by KF word by word an
   suggest changes

   KF: sure

   JB: starting at top of provision
   ... 4.1.8 - needs a short handle - direct keyboard commands probably
   works, but possible that direct keyboard commands may not be as
   self-evident as we hope
   ... single key access: requires only a single keystroke?

   KF: or one modifier key

   JB: wanted to toss with or without modifiers, but without it, single
   key access will be misunderstood
   ... agree can't drop with or without modifiers

   GJR: agree

   JA: agree

   JB: guess is that phrase "with or without modifiers" could be phrases
   more clearly
   ... streamline intro to classes -- qualified several ways, but not at
   level of parsimonious elegance that JR achieved in 4.1.5 --
   conceptually has right stuff, but needs wordsmithing
   ... still a stage away from geting to most essential comments as
   parsimoniously as possible
   ... take what KF has distilled down to another level, then return to
   clases of operation

   JR: we used to say "key-plus-modifier-key (or single-key)"

   JB: that's a mouthful and mindful - might do better

   KF: build up - start at zero and build up definition; zero starting
   point is "important UA functions have to be achievable in one
   keystroke" -- that is core

   JB: important keyboard functions need to be done with one keystroke
   ... important command functions or keyboard functions?

   KF: command functions

   JB: essence is: "important command functions" - could be handle

   <AllanJ> Important keyboard commands. Primary user agent operations
   are operable with a single keystroke.

   JB: are modifiers always a key?

   KF: believe so

   JB: actually, sticky keys is a mode, so modifier isn't right

   JA: using stickyKeys to do modifier combo

   JB: set mode and then that mode is default mode for duration
   ... "important command functions should be available via a single
   keystroke with or without a modifier"

   KF: could break modifier in own section

   JB: important command functions should be available via single
   keystroke
   ... put rest in note
   ... what lost: modifiers, primary user agent functionality for
   following class of operations....
   ... where the user agent provides such functionality - second
   qualifier is "can do if we can"

   JA: nod toward devices with limited keypads (mobile numbers only)

   JB: might be better addressed as note
   ... just have one long note and covers 3 things at least but with a
   simple elegant requirement statement

   <jeanne> Important Command Functions: Important Command Functions are
   available in a single keystroke

   JR: different classes could go into techique - which are your
   important commands; what are intended classes

   JA: would be good

   JB: look at classes 1 by 1

   JR: dropping operating environment?

   JB: put in note with an example at least instead of general statement
   - "for instance, the operating environment of a mobile phone may not
   allow...."

   JR: definition of keystroke

   GJR: check latest access module draft for language

   JB: classes of operations - bear in mind may end up in techniques or
   note
   ... first is a substantive class - are all examples necessary?

   JR: great explanation for techniques

   JB: "b) display related functions"
   ... could be that the note would contain the generic / abstract
   categories, and examples coupled with techniques
   ... c) content related functions
   ... d) information related functions
   ... interesting distinction

   KF: rationale: usually read content, but increasingly UAs have
   facilities for managing info - favorites, rrs subscriptions, FF
   "awesome bar" - similar feature in IE8; UAs starting to add a lot of
   information management controls

   JB: call them information management features?
   ... what is diff between content and information - nothing from terms
   juxtaposed unless for examples following - if use "information
   management functions"

   <jeanne> +1

   RESOLUTION: change point d0 to "information management functions"

   JB: state "this is a non-exhaustive list of functions"

   JR: what if grab headers and use them in an e.g. clause
   ... important command functions (e.g. content related, information
   management functions, etc.) then push rest to techniques

   JB: built-into provision, not note?

   JR: yes

   JB: "imporant command functions (e.g. [...])" - what do people think?

   GJR: like e.g. clause solution advanced by jan

   JS: how would we test it?
   ... as long as leaving it up to the developer to say what is
   important, is very successful,but need to keep that in mind

   <AllanJ> Important Command Functions: Important Command Functions
   (e.g. navigation related functions, display-related functions, content
   related functions, information management related functions) are
   available in a single keystroke

   JR: maybe not all 4 in the e.g. clause

   JB: friendly ammendment -

   <AllanJ> Important Command Functions: Important Command Functions
   (e.g. related to navigation, display, content, and information
   management) are available in a single keystroke

   <judy> Important command functions: Important command functions (e.g.
   navigation-related, display-related, content-related,
   information-management) are available in a single keystroke.

   JB: wiped out capitalization
   ... status review should be capitalized, but not after that
   ... JA's much more graceful

   JA: then can comma etc. - to achieve balance and cover a host of evils

   <judy> Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g.
   related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.)
   are available in a single keystroke.

   <Jan> +1

   <AllanJ> +1

   <KFord> I like.

   GJR: plus 1

   <judy> +1

   <jeanne> +1

   <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for 4.1.9
   Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related
   to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are
   available in a single keystroke. [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for
   4.1.9 Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g.
   related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.)
   are available in a single keystroke. [on Jeanne Spellman - due
   2008-09-04].

review 4.1.10

   proposed RESOLUTION: definition of Important Command Functions:
   Important command functions are available in a single keystroke; e.g.,
   related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.

   <AllanJ> new - 4.1.10 User Override of Keyboard Commands: The user can
   override any keyboard shortcut binding that is part of the user agent
   default input configuration except for conventional bindings for the
   operating environment (e.g., for access to help). The keyboard
   combinations offered for rebinding include single key and key plus
   modifier keys if these are available in the operating environment.

   proposed RESOLUTION for 4.1.9: definition of "Important Command
   Functions" Important Command Functions: Important command functions
   are available in a single keystroke; e.g., related to navigation,
   display, content, information management, etc.

   JA: split 4.1.10 into 2 to avoid confusion
   ... first part is easy (overriding user interface) - opera does well
   ... several issues arise with overriding content function like access
   key
   ... 2 situations: author uses accented character as accesskey, not
   available on keyboard, so UA remaps - how does user know?
   ... second: if user rebinds keybindings, how does user get
   notification of previo;usly made changes

   KF: and what if author has changed keys so remapping now moot

   JB: essence of what we are trying to say?
   ... don't think essence is user-override but user notification and
   control

   JR: override is part of it

   JB: yes, part of it, but what is abosulte reduction?

   JR: person who can only use part of keyboard

   GJR: limit to homerow a use case

   JB: only part of it - what is available and what was used last

   JS: another aspect - screen reader users to remap key so doesn't
   conflict with AT command frequently invoked with keybinding

   GJR: discoverability and notification when there is NOT an AT being
   used is important

   JB: split help or hurt?

   JA: helps
   ... 1 is a lot easeir to do than the other

   KF: second one is almost undoable - doable, but fraught with
   complications

   JB: how important is it?
   ... user can override any author provided keybinding....
   ... way to change req so more doable?
   ... if more doable, could be conflated - have it or not, regardless of
   source

   <AllanJ> essence

   <AllanJ> 1. user needs to know the current keybinding

   KF: why should UA override author

   <AllanJ> 2. user need to remap to avoid conflict, fill personal need

   <AllanJ> 3. recall remap

   <AllanJ> 4. ??what happens when content changes

   GJR: author proposes, user disposes
   ... notes this has been addressed in Access Module
   ... new wording explicitly states that the key is an abstraction and
   is only a suggestion of the author

   JA: if define accesskey binding that doesn't exist on user's hardware,
   what to do?

   JR: do we really mean users need to be able to do on site by site
   basis
   ... users can disallow certain keys that pose problems - no accented
   keys allowed as configuration setting

   JB: override is part of issue, but is it muddying issue by advancing
   solution rather than stating problem
   ... problem is 1) know what is happening and 2) how to exert control
   over it

   GJR: suggest we re-examine latest Access Module draft wording

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#E_access

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_activate

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_key

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_media

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_order

   "This attribute assigns one or more key mappings to an access
   shortcut. The value of is attribute is one or more single characters
   from the document character set."

   "The key attribute represents an abstraction. The use of the name
   "key" for this attribute is historical and does not mean that there is
   any association with a specific "key" on a keyboard, per se. It is up
   to the user agent to provide a mechanism for mapping the document
   character set value(s) of the attribute to the input methods available
   to the user agent. For instance, on some systems a user may have to
   press an "alt" or "cmd" key in addition to the access

   JR: agrees with what i was stating

   "A user entering any of the keys defined in an access element moves
   focus from its current position to the next element in navigation
   order that has one of the referenced role or id values (see activate
   for information on how the element may be activated). Note that it is
   possible to deliver alternate events via [XMLEVENTS]. Note also that
   the concept of navigation order is a property of the Host Language,
   and is not defined in this specification."

   "User agents MUST provide mechanisms for overriding the author setting
   with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of moving
   content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further
   action, as required by UAAG 1.0, Checkpoint 9.5. [UAAG1] The character
   assigned to a key, and its relationship to a role or id attribute
   SHOULD be treated as an author suggestion. User agents MAY override
   any key assignment (e.g., if an assignment interferes w

   JS: spoken keyboard commands standardized by an AT

   JR: assess keyboard options - which are your most prefered, less
   preferred, disallowed; in speech recognizition scenario, have the
   prefered keys used for remapping

   JA: crux is: UA says i've remapped all these keys - how does it inform
   the user, when all it knows is assign keystroke to some function on
   page, but UA can only say "you only have these keys avaiable to you"

   JR: handled in 4.1.5 - "have to display direct keyboard commands"

   q_

   JR: in 4.1.5 say:

   <AllanJ> GJR: concern. if a key is remapped. no matter who remapped.
   how does UA communicate to the user that the key changed, for which
   the labeling information has not been defined

   JR: "user has option..." -- doesn't happen now, but asking UA to put
   in - floating label or status line message associated with control

   KF: have to leave now, sorry

   GJR: very important when considering users who are not using AT, but
   need notificatiion or are using native accessibility features of UA
   (zooming)

   JA: reached end of our time - can some of us go futher

   JB: figure out next steps towards zeroing in

   <scribe> ACTION: JR to propose new wording for 4.1.10 and 4.1.11
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Propose new wording for 4.1.10 and
   4.1.11 [on Jan Richards - due 2008-09-04].

   <scribe> ACTION: Gregory - post Access Module concerns to UA list
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - - post Access Module concerns to UA list
   [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-09-04].

   JA: AlanC will be unavailable for a while
   ... will be out the next 2 weeks

   WG: good luck jim

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Gregory - post Access Module concerns to UA list
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: JR to propose new wording for 4.1.10 and 4.1.11
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: JS to update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for 4.1.9
   Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related
   to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are
   available in a single keystroke. [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: JS Update 4.1 to include the wording above for 4.1.5
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: JS Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new wording for
   4.1.7 [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: JS will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove 4.1.9
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 28 August 2008 19:48:42 GMT

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