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Minutes for User Agent Teleconference for March 6 2008 (new time 2pm Eastern)

From: Jan Richards <jan.richards@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:00:29 -0500
Message-ID: <47D05B6D.8060308@utoronto.ca>
To: "'WAI-ua'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
CC: "'Philippe Le Hegaret'" <plh@w3.org>


Action Items:
ACTION: KF to To draft some placeholder text for UAAG2 first draft to 
ensure it is clear we will be dealing with video and multimedia
ACTION: JR to Write draft placeholder on keyboard issue

Full text:
<scribe> Scribe: Jan

JB: We have two guests Phillipe and Geoff

JA: I'm joining from a line at the airport

Meeting during CSUN?
JR: Let's just wait for regrets

Video Accessibility and UAAG2 - round 2

JA: Just wanted to see if Philipe and Geoff read it...
... Are things covered etc.

PLH: Looked like a good starting point

GF: Has summary that JA sent
... Might be able to give more info in response to questions
... Info is summary looks good - covers most accessibility things

JA: PLH had brought up a bunch of things last week - having to do with 
native browser rendering of videos

GF: So yes certainly need stop/start/play need also controls for various 
tracks,: captions, foreeign langs, subtitles, signing video tracks etc
... Plsayers should be able to identify tracks and turn them on and off

PLH: 3 points wondering last time:
... (1) regarding identification of tracks and language...how far do we 
need to go
... e.g. metadata seems to be missing on whether a track is an audio 

GF: In terms of captionning in QT, QT will put metadata on text tracks, 
then author could rename it a "caption" track
... Then in QT could creat control that looks for it
... In SMIL could do the same thing

JR: Is there controlled vocabulary?

GF: IN QT example, there is no controlled vocab...my sprite looks for 
what I call my track
... In SMIL there are test attributes

JR: Test attributes?

GF: Test attributes: system_captions, system_audiodesc

JR: Still not controleled vocab for extended desc ?

GF: Righ...done differently for extended audio desc, then ASL is just 
another video track
... In SMIL filee define video regions eg. in area one main video, ASL 
in another region

JR: How to flow in user control?

GF: SMIL players don't supply user control.
... e.g. growing the captions
... But author could do that - eg. button could do it

JR: So that hits issue on the head ...UAAG is about flowing user reqs

<judy> dick bulterman

<plh> Dick Bulterman (CWI)

GF: Could ask...Dick Bulterman - SMIL lead
... The WG is working in Venice in a few weeks

PHL: 2 main points
... In HTML5 video element - and doc says it is up to user agent to 
provide captionning...
... So where will these be displayed?
... Overlay on video or next to it.
... Need to provide info back to HTMLWG since they don't think they will 
be be reflowing

GF: Right so could but them on top as layer or beside causing reflow
... No clear version is better
... Personally like it over but can be hard to read
... Can compromise with translkucent bckgrounds
... But some people say too much video is blocked

KF: You described techniques but shouldnt' user agent allow user to 
control what is right for them
... Do you feel that user agents will have enough info allow that conterol

GF: would be great if they could but can't think of where this is done

JR: Brings up ATRC projects that have done this but needs controlled vocab

JA: OK also what about resize the video window (magnify)

GF: Can do that now - keyboard shortcuts now to recale player and it 
scales text
... So that's not a problem

PHL: My last question even more open - difference between 
functionalities avaialble from User Agent and available to Author
... Javascript access to video
... Some things likely would be accessible by author and some by UA
... ex. of captions enable/disable should author have this control?

GF: Would say yes....maybe author wants to have more control over the 
look of the player - maybe even a different skin etc

JA: I think being able to skin buttons etc a good idea, but larger 
control in browser is problematic - eg forget to label a button

GF: Can think of only 1 example of player that come with built in 
control (in Real Player caption controls are buried)
... Can prob think of devs that would be held to a design
... Others might be for it

JA: SIMM guidelines or just ours?

GF: Def yours, then talk to Dick

JA: You've also done work with Flash like things

GF: No standard Flash player
... DFXP is just a text format that is in dev at W3C
... Flash and DFXP, DFXP is being used to create captions for Flash
... We created a template and player that allows flash to be produced 
that can be accessible on our player

JA: What is DFXP

GF: Just a text format like Real Text
... Supposed to be neutral
... With a bunch of styling and timing information
... NCAM's CCPlayer is just one of those players

JA: ALso last time we discussed interaction areas...eg an area might be 
a link,,,jumping interactive things

GF: Alsready possible to put URL's in captions
... Is it keyboardable?
... No
... Certainly no in any plugin
... Haven't seen it in players

JB: Want to make sure we get this into existing draft
... Maybe just a big placeholder note

GF: Off the top of my head, if keyboard command to move focus to player...
... could pause video then move around

JR: Points towards more active UA role, eg extract to list of links

GF: Right, that might be more readily acheivable

PHL: Would like to follow up of DFSP


JB: In terms of how to get this into drat

JR: Think draft covers this intrinisically dso maybe just notes

<judy> JR: we could say something like "the WG does intend this to apply 

KF: Maybe we need to be more explicit...WG intends to publish more 
excplicit requirements in video and interactive animation space

JB: I would support KF's approach

KF, JB: We appreciate this conversation and hope you can return when 

JB: Would really help coordinate things
... And maybe could talk about issues such as why 2 captionning formats
... So W3C can get rationale for this out there

GF: Talking about DFXP and SMIL text?

JB: Yes
... Maybe PHL and I can brainstorm this a bit

<scribe> ACTION: KF to To draft some placeholder text for UAAG2 first 
draft to ensure it is clear we will be dealing with video and multimedia 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-minutes.html#action01]

When is UAAG2 ready for 1st public working draft?
JB: KF you're read all the way through?

KF: Going through a third time. Getting to picky comments

JB: Skimmed....seems more than adequate for first working draft
... Notice Acknowledgments out of date


JA: So big chunks are from UAAG1

JB: Yes need it updated
... Maybe change header to "Participants active in the UAWG leading up 
to time of publication"
... Also add in Judy

JR: Also...there is: "Other previously active UAWG participants and 
other contributors to UAAG 2.0"

JB: Maybe "Active or Recently Active" as first one...

JA: WHat about Geoff and Phillippe

JB: Would need to ask their permission
... So Kathy, Peter, Dave P, maybe Geoff, maybe Phillipe to "Other 
previously active UAWG participants and other contributors to UAAG 2.0:"
... Other than that any objections?

KF: Maybe a bit rough at CSUN

JB: Would really like it up before Thursday next week and also before AC 
in April
... First draft can be rough

KF: For my perspecivtive I'm ok to go

JA: Me too


JB: Aim for Wednesday, but also dependent on Shawn, Judy, Jules


KF: Must get off call in 2 mins

JB Thinks there is additional work on it

JB: So propose a placeholder for this draft

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Write draft placeholder on keyboard issue 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-minutes.html#action02]

JB: Feel that this area can cause weird breakdowns of understanding\

KF: Thinks disconnect is that people affected see the need SO clearly

JA: So should we put in what we have so far?

JB: Let's put in placeholder text
... With latest version...took chrome out of it....


JA: I keep thinking there are like 4 things we need to do...
... Seems muddled at the moment

JB: Education for me in TEITAC...there are lots of other aspects of this
... Things are broken off and put elsewhere
... e.g. documentation section etc
... I think its so complicated we need to take some time to think this over

Jim Allan wrote:
> User Agent Teleconference for March 6 2008 (new time 2pm Eastern) 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Chair: Jim Allan
> Date: Thursday, March 6 2008 
> Time: 2:00-3:00 pm Boston Local Time, USA (19:00-20:00 UTC/GMT)
> Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
> 44-117-270-6152
> IRC: sever: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #ua.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Regrets: 
> Agenda:
> 0. Regrets, agenda requests, or comments to the list
> 1. Meeting during CSUN?
> 2. Video Accessibility and UAAG2 - round 2
> 	- Invited guests Philippe Le Hegaret (W3C) & Geoff Freed (WGBH-NCAM)
> 	- Video synthesis of round 1
> 	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0047.html
> 	Anything missing? 
> 	Where to incorporate in UAAG2?
> 3. Review Keyboard Access 
> 	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html 
> 	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0053.html
> 4. When is UAAG2 ready for 1st public working draft?
> 	- What is the W3 process? 
> 	- What are the working group's task related to issuing a public
> draft?
> Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist 
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired 
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
>>>> Share to Win! <<<

Jan Richards, M.Sc.
User Interface Design Specialist
Adaptive Technology Resource Centre (ATRC)
Faculty of Information Studies
University of Toronto

   Email: jan.richards@utoronto.ca
   Web:   http://jan.atrc.utoronto.ca
   Phone: 416-946-7060
   Fax:   416-971-2896
Received on Thursday, 6 March 2008 20:59:37 UTC

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