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Definitions of Flow [ was Re: Minutes 15 May 2008]

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:12:43 -0400
Message-ID: <4832C03B.9000704@w3.org>
To: WAI-UA list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>

Jan,

The definition of "Flow" didn't specify visual medium which IMHO needs 
to be included. I also thought it needed to be more generic, so I re- 
purposed some text from Internationalization.  I also added a word to 
passive reflow, since it only gives priority to one dimension and 
usually extends the non-fixed (vertical) dimension. See if this fits 
your thoughts. 

jeanne

Jeanne proposes:
*Flow*
<INS>Display of text or blocks of content in a logical order for that 
language or as specified by the author. For example, most Latin-based 
documents use a horizontal left-to-right text layout flow in which the 
next line always appears below the previous one.  </INS> A *reflow* 
occurs when changes to the content blocks or the viewport dimensions 
necessitate recalculating this layout.

1. In *passive (re)flow*, the user agent gives priority to the <INS> 
fixed </INS>dimensions of the content blocks, resulting in overflow of 
the fixed viewport dimension and the need for the viewport to scroll in 
its fixed dimension.


Jan Richards wrote:
>
> For my action item - draft a definition of "passive reflow":
>
>
> *Flow*:
> Laying out blocks of content into rows (when the horizontal viewport 
> dimension is fixed) or columns (when the vertical viewport dimension 
> is fixed). A *reflow* occurs when changes to the content blocks or the 
> viewport dimensions necessitate recalculating this layout.
>
> 1. In *passive (re)flow*, the user agent gives priority to the 
> dimensions of the content blocks, resulting in overflow of the fixed 
> viewport dimension and the need for the viewport to scroll in its 
> fixed dimension.
>
> 2. In *active (re)flow", the user agent fives priority to the fixed 
> viewport dimension and rescales content blocks to fit.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Jan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Allan wrote:
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html
>>
>> Action Items:
>> GR send the scribing tips to Jeanne who will combine it with some other
>> instructions. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
>>
>> GR will post information on the Test Suite. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action05]
>>
>> GR will re-examine CSS 2.1 on flow. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action04]
>>
>> GR will take back to the HTML group. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>> JR will draft a definition of "passive reflow" [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
>>
>> Draft Minutes
>> 15 May 2008
>>
>> See also: IRC log
>> Attendees
>>
>> Present
>> Regrets
>> Chair
>>     Jim Allan
>> Scribe
>>     jeanne
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>     * Topics
>>          1. next week meeting
>>          2. F2F
>>          3. scribing
>>          4. future directions:
>>          5. printing
>>     * Summary of Action Items
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> <AllanJ> Title: UAWG telecon
>>
>> <AllanJ> Agenda:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0099.html and
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0106.html
>>
>> <oedipus> www.freedomchat.org
>>
>> <AllanJ> http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/iamc.html
>>
>> JA: HTML group wants to see "MUST" in the access module.
>>
>> GR: HTML group says over-riding key bindings are a MUST.
>>
>> <KFord> What's the syntax to put myself on the queue?
>>
>> JB: SHOULD, SHALL and MUST are policy/procedure words. Judy wants to 
>> look at
>> this more carefully.
>>
>> JA: The items in question are P2 which would be "should" by WCAG1.
>> ... we haven't used that before. Makes it difficult for the developer to
>> know what to code to.
>>
>> JR: Only use MUST when there is no reasonible exception to the rule.
>>
>> GR: Correct, they think there is no exception.
>>
>> <oedipus> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
>>
>> KF: I'm not ok with MUST. I can't make this an absolute.
>>
>> GR: XHTML2 WG is not negotiating on this.
>>
>> ??: Does this draft now go to public comment? Can we provide feedback to
>> that?
>>
>> JB: THey are enforcing a higher level of accessibility than UAAG?
>>
>> <AllanJ> propose Access module wording -
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0100.html
>>
>> It is their spec.
>>
>> JA: We reviewed their spec and make our comments and cross-referenced 
>> the
>> dependencies to our UAAG 1.0 checkpoints.
>> ... We re-wrote it based on our understanding of the language. They came
>> back to a higher priority.
>>
>> JB: It would be a good cross-group courtesy to work this out before 
>> it goes
>> to LC.
>> ... it could be useful to invite cross-group discussion so that our
>> priorities can be synchonized. It could be difficult to coordinate
>> time-wise.
>>
>> GR: the main editor is not available for meeting today. They like the 
>> idea
>> of "persistent over session"
>> ... we need to define what we mean by session. It is in the WAI 
>> glossary,
>> which is out-dated.
>>
>> JA: Can we just put a period after "persist"?
>>
>> <AllanJ> old: If no key attribute is specified, the user agent SHOULD 
>> assign
>> a key and
>>
>> <AllanJ> alert the user to the key mapping and the resultant user agent
>> assigned
>>
>> <AllanJ> key SHOULD persist across sessions.
>>
>> GR: That wording leaves it open for sites that want to give user session
>> options.
>>
>> <AllanJ> new: If no key attribute is specified, the user agent SHOULD 
>> assign
>> a key and
>>
>> <AllanJ> alert the user to the key mapping and the resultant user agent
>> assigned
>>
>> <AllanJ> key SHOULD persist.
>>
>> KF: In a public environment, you may not want the key to persist.
>>
>> JA: Sometime when we go to write techniques, we can give examples of 
>> writing
>> it to a cookie, or other techniques.
>>
>> KF: If you have done something for accessibility, it should be 
>> implemented.
>> It is open to enough interpretation that the user agent development
>> community should have the flexibility they need.
>>
>> vote: KF: yes. GR: yes. JR: yes. JB: yes. JA:yes. JS:yes
>>
>> <scribe> ACTION: GR will take back to the HTML group. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>> JB: Wants link to mailing archive for this discussion from the HTML 
>> group.
>> next week meeting
>>
>> Jim is away next week. Judy recommends skipping one week and planning a
>> meeting for the following week.
>> F2F
>>
>> JA: Want to discuss now because there deadlines coming up.
>>
>> JB: Tech Plenary and TPAC in France around October 29. Good 
>> opportunity for
>> meeting.
>>
>> JA: Another option is ATAG is meeting in Redmond, WA in July 25, 26. 
>> Tuesday
>> it was asked: Could we have a UAAG meeting at same time?
>>
>> KF: if we have the meeting scheduled in France, do we need another?
>>
>> JB: It can be an advantage. With it scheduled for July, it could be good
>> timing. We don't want to overwhelm hosting.
>> ... Another possibility would be another host in the same town. Or meet
>> somewhere else before October.
>>
>> KF: Could get an official answer by ...
>>
>> JA: When KF finds out, he will send an email.
>> scribing
>>
>> JB: Who else is able to scribe?
>>
>> Jan, Jim, Gregory (once a month), Jeanne
>>
>> Kelly is willing, but doesn't know how to do it.
>>
>> JB: There are scribing tips we can distribute. We can set up a scribe
>> rotation.
>>
>> GR: Has a scribe
>>
>> <scribe> ACTION: GR send the scribing tips to Jeanne who will combine it
>> with some other instructions. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
>> future directions:
>>
>> <AllanJ> 
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html
>>
>> JA: We need to work on these topics (printing, keyboard access, UA and
>> Video) and work them out on the email list.
>> printing
>>
>> <AllanJ> SC: 3.11.X Print Scale: If a print from viewport feature is
>> provided,
>>
>> <AllanJ> the user has the option of printing using the viewport's scale
>> settings
>>
>> <AllanJ> such that the user agent should attempt to *passively 
>> reflow* the
>>
>> <AllanJ> content into the horizontal dimensions of paper. If passive 
>> reflow
>> is
>>
>> <AllanJ> not possible, more than one sheet of paper will be required
>> horizontally.
>>
>> JA: JR proposed removing "pieces of paper".
>> ... we need a new definition of "passively reflowing"
>>
>> KF: "print" is too restrictive, it doesn't include embossing.
>>
>> JB: propose "printing and embossing" to keep it from getting too 
>> obscure.
>>
>> JR: Does embossing horizontally cross two pages?
>>
>> GR: "Paged media" is too cryptic. Most user agents don't print 
>> directly to
>> an embosser, they use another AT software to do the embossing.
>>
>> JB: Does it make sense to say "printing" and define it elsewhere? Or the
>> first time it is used also include embossing?
>>
>> KF: When you send to an embosser, the embosser software does the 
>> reflow. The
>> user agent doesn't have anything to do with it.
>> ... Leave it as is and include a note that some printing from user 
>> agent may
>> include providng information to other technologies for production in
>> alternative media."
>>
>> GR: if you print something and it is too big for the page, it still 
>> needs to
>> go somewhere and not be lost.
>>
>> JA: When I print from my browser, some text is lost off the right of the
>> page.
>>
>> <AllanJ> jeanne: also an authoring problem, if css used properly it will
>> reflow, if not printing breaks
>>
>> JA: Still need to define passive reflow. Any ideas on a definition?
>>
>> action JR will draft a definition
>>
>> scribe: of passive reflow
>>
>> <scribe> ACTION: JR will draft a definition of "passive reflow" 
>> [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
>>
>> JR: Horizontal flow, do we also need to consider vertical flow to
>> accommodate the direction of the language flow.
>>
>> <scribe> ACTION: GR will re-examine CSS 2.1 on flow. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action04]
>>
>> <scribe> ACTION: GR will post information on the Test Suite. 
>> [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action05]
>>
>> <AllanJ> -q
>>
>> JA: CSS has language tags for left and right, but I have never seen 
>> anything
>> for vertical.
>>
>> JB: I18l can fill us in on any requirements for print direction.
>>
>> JR: There is language that is appropriate.
>>
>> JA: What's the success criteria?
>>
>> <AllanJ> +1 level 1
>>
>> GR: PR 1. Many examples of people who need it.
>>
>> KF: we need to think about the process of assigning priorities rather 
>> than
>> throwing out use cases.
>>
>> JA: table this to two weeks.
>>
>> <scribe> scribe: jeanne
>>
>> Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
>> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
>> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
>> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
>> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 20 May 2008 12:13:23 GMT

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