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Re: images, bullets, and style sheets FYI

From: Wendy A Chisholm <chisholm@trace.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:10:37 -0500
Message-Id: <199805072011.PAA26537@trace.wisc.edu>
To: "Geoff Freed" <Geoff_Freed@wgbh.org>
Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org, cwilso@MICROSOFT.com
it does sound like we're seeing different things.  I've set up a mac with
msie 4.0 (wow, is ie4 different between the two platforms!)

You're right. With image loading off, all of the image bullets are loaded.
The first 401K has a browser drawn bullet (as it should - it is not a list
item of class "new").  Also, the second 401K does NOT have a bullet at all
because it is an item in a definition list (thought I'd try a few different

Two questions I would like answers to:
1.  why does this work differently between the mac and win95?
2.  why is the IMG loaded?  it is not associated with any list items?  I
think the answer might be that the image got loaded in the cache because of
the style sheet property and therefore loaded wherever it appeared.

I'm concerned that outspoken does not recognize the default bullets.  It
used to say something like "a acute" didn't it?  wonder what's going on


Geoff Freed wrote:
>i'm using IE 4 on the mac with images turned off.  with the exception of the
>FIRST line that reads "401K," all lines are preceded by three blue bullets of
>increasing size, left to right.  (the SECOND "401K" line has no bullet at
>all.)  this first "401K" line is preceded by a single default black bullet. 
>none of the bullets, either blue or black, are recognized by outspoken.  is
>this what you're seeing on your PC?  it sounds like we're seeing different
>i was under the impression that IE 4/mac supports the same things as IE
>maybe not?
>Date: 5/7/98 12:00 PM
>To: Geoff Freed
>From: Wendy A Chisholm
>I was curious about what MSIE 4.x does when bullets have been specified
>using images and style sheets.  MSIE 4.x is the only browser that supports
>this at this time that I'm aware of - see
>http://www.webreview.com/guides/style/index.html for a complete list of
>which style sheet directives Netscape Communicator 4, MSIE 3.0 and 4.x
>support on mac and win95.  i also tested amaya for win95 and double checked
>with NSC4 for win95 and found no support on either user agent.
>I created a test page (
>http://trace.ie.wisc.edu/kaboodle/html/tests/ssbullets.htm ) that uses
>style sheets to generate bullets for an unordered list and verifies against
>strict 4.0.  I had the assumption that if images were not loaded an image
>icon would replace the bullet, or that a browser generated bullet would
>proceed an image icon without alt-text.  Instead, I was happy to find that
>when images are not loaded it draws default bullets.  Therefore, we never
>see two bullets nor do we see image icons without alt-text.
>The user agent guidelines ought to recommend similar "intelligence" so that
>it doesn't disappear from MSIE and is included in future user agents.
>wendy chisholm
>human factors engineer
>trace research and development center
>university of wisconsin - madison, USA
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>Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:56:59 -0500
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>From: Wendy A Chisholm <chisholm@trace.wisc.edu>
>Cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
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