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RE: Having h5 after h2 is a violation as per 1.3.1 info & relationships. - was: WCAG violations or accessibility enhancements

From: David Best <davebest@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 14:23:38 -0500
To: "'Phill Jenkins'" <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, "'Rakesh Paladugula'" <prakesh369@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Ramakrishnan Subramanian'" <ram.eict2013@gmail.com>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <002101d3b192$d8c88d80$8a59a880$@cogeco.ca>
This, I believe, illustrates the fine line between WCAG criteria and usability
preferences. Technically, I do not think it is a 1.3.1 violation, but it may
create user confusion, as the screen reader question would be "what am I
missing?". This may occur on dynamic pages, and may not necessarily be under the
control of the web page if third party widgets are used. So, it is really a
question of good design and branding.

David

 

From: Phill Jenkins [mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: March 1, 2018 01:30 PM
To: Rakesh Paladugula
Cc: Ramakrishnan Subramanian; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Having h5 after h2 is a violation as per 1.3.1 info &
relationships. - was: WCAG violations or accessibility enhancements

 

Why is 
        Having h5 after h2 
a violation of 1.3.1?
 
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#content-structure-separation-pro
grammatic> 1.3.1 Info and Relationships: Information, structure
<https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/content-structure-separation-program
matic.html#structuredef> , and relationships
<https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/content-structure-separation-program
matic.html#relationshipsdef>  conveyed through presentation
<https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/content-structure-separation-program
matic.html#presentationdef> can be programmatically determined
<https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/content-structure-separation-program
matic.html#programmaticallydetermineddef>  or are available in text. (Level A) 

1.3.1 doesn't require perfect nesting order - just that it can be
programmatically determined.

There are plently of examples of news type pages that may have a bold looking
headline heading tagged as an <h2> followed in the reading order by a very small
heading, such as  "Other Author Articles" tagged as an H5.  
What would be wrong with that per the Success Criteria?

The
<https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/content-structure-separation-program
matic.html> Understanding 1.3.3 says: "The intent of this Success Criterion is
to ensure that information and relationships that are implied by visual or
auditory formatting are preserved when the presentation format changes. For
example, the presentation format changes when the content is read by a screen
reader . . . Sighted users perceive structure and relationships through various
visual cues - headings are often in a larger, bold font separated from
paragraphs by blank lines; . .  
under Additional Techniques (Advisory) for 1.3.1
 <http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/G141> G141: Organizing a
page using headings
https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/G141which says: "To
facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors
should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2
followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.). 
Tests
Procedure

2.        Check that a heading for each section exists.


Expected Results

*	Check #2 is true.

Note that 
a.) G141 is an advisory techniue, 
b.) G141 does not say "shall" or "must", 
c.) G141 does not fail if the heading are not nested,
d.) G141 passes if each section has a heading,   
e.) advisory techniques are best practices, not examples of failures to meet a
Success Criteria,
f.) Common Failures for SC 1.3.1 does not list an example with incorrectly
nested headings . 


On 14-Feb-2018, at 11:41 AM, Ramakrishnan Subramanian <ram.eict2013@gmail.com>
wrote:

Heading order:
Whether the following heading level is considered an accessibility
violation? if yes, which criteria does this violate?
The first heading level in the page is <h2> sample text </h2>
The next heading level is <h5> sample text </h5>
___________
Regards,
Phill Jenkins




On 14-Feb-2018, at 11:41 AM, Ramakrishnan Subramanian <ram.eict2013@gmail.com>
wrote:

Dear Members,
I hope it is appropriate to post this query here.
I kindly request you to help me understand few of the accessibility
related issues mentioned below.
Whether these are treated as accessibility enhancement which would be
helpful for the end user. Or accessibility violation.
Heading order:
Whether the following heading level is considered an accessibility
violation? if yes, which criteria does this violate?
The first heading level in the page is <h2> sample text </h2>
The next heading level is <h5> sample text </h5>

Landmark regions:
When there are different content given inside two different aria
region, with same aria label. Under which criteria this fails?
<div role="region" aria-label="apple">
Apple related content goes here
</div>
<div role="region" aria-label="apple">
Bannana related content goes here
</div>
3. Links which open in a new window:
When there is no indication for the screen reader users for the link
which opens in a new window, is that considered an accessibility
violation? If yes, which criteria does this issue violate?


-- 

Thanks and Regards
Ramakrishnan
Received on Thursday, 1 March 2018 19:24:32 UTC

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