W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2013

(unknown charset) Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

From: <accessys@smart.net>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 17:35:27 -0500 (EST)
To: (unknown charset) Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>
cc: (unknown charset) "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.1303011731520.6155@cygnus.smart.net>

well there are standards for curb cuts in the US and I believe that a 1/4 
inch is the max non beveled lip.

and while I may sound like I'm running antiques it is Kabuntu 12.4lts and 
lynx is fairly stable but still supported and most recently updated in 
June 2010 so we are not talking obsolete tech. just not used a lot.

Bob


On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, Michael Gower wrote:

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 14:19:37 -0800
> From: Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>
> To: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
> Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 22:20:15 +0000
> Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> 
> The curb example is an interesting analogy, Bob, and indicative of a
> larger issue, that has been hinted at here.
> In my home town, virtually every sidewalk in town has cutouts, but the new
> motorized scooters many elderly folks (and others) are using nowadays have
> such a low clearance on their wheel base that they were either bottoming
> out on the slope or were stopped by the curb lip, or both. Now, I would
> argue that at some point decisions to adopt technology that don't support
> certain standards  become a buyer's own problem and responsibility.
> There are obviously parallels to what happens if someone with an older or
> decidedly non-mainstream OS expects to be able to have full access to what
> they want on the web. At some point, most people would say that a
> technology becomes so obscure or dated that expecting current practices to
> accommodate it is unreasonable. I'm not suggesting this is the case with
> PDF docs on a Mac OS. But I am suggesting that universal access likely
> means something different to everyone, and few of us would say it is a
> synonym for "limitless access."
>
> As a postscript, the city is now spending a lot of money grinding down the
> curb lips and cut-out angles to allow these scooters to work. Is it best
> use of funds? I don't know, but there are certainly other services and
> barriers to PwD that aren't being addressed at the same time.
>
> Michael Gower
>
>
>
> From:   accessys@smart.net
> To:     Olaf Drümmer <olaf@druemmer.com>,
> Cc:     "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, Ramón Corominas
> <listas@ramoncorominas.com>, Vivienne CONWAY <v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
> Date:   03/01/2013 01:01 PM
> Subject:        Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
>
>
>
>
> example,  there are curbs (kerbs) all over the world, does one blame the
> builder or the one who maintains them or rebuilds them. a person in a
> wheelchair usually doesn't care if the curb cut is concrete or Asphalt or
> wood just as long as it is usable. and usable by all wheelchairs. what if
> a curb cut were built with a wheel spacing that only works with a single
> brand of wheelchairs. does that make sense??
>
> same concept, don't care what is used to make it accessible as long as it
> is accessible to all platforms. and yes it is a process, making old stuff
> accessible is work but we should try to find easier ways, making
> something new inaccessible, there is no excuse.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, [iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>
>> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:44:59 +0100
>> From: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>
>> To: accessys@smart.net, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>> Cc: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>,
>>     "[iso-8859-1] Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>,
>>     Vivienne CONWAY <v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
>> Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 20:46:10 +0000
>> Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>
>> So - whom to blame?
>>
>> Blame PDF for the fact that documents on paper exist?
>>
>> Do you realize that it is because of technology that it becomes feasible
> in the first place to make paper more accessible than it used to be
> virtually  more or less forever before?
>>
>> I agree to the goal - move in a direction where access becomes
> universal, but to blame PDF (or any other format or technology for that
> purpose) that paper documents exist (which by definition are not, and
> never have been, accessible to certain groups of users) is ... well ...
> interesting.
>>
>> Next you ask to destroy all printing presses, laser and inkjet printers
> and photocopying machines, because they even create more documents in an
> accessible format (that is, on paper)?
>>
>> Paper is also bad, isn't it?
>>
>> Olaf
>>
>>
>> Am 1 Mar 2013 um 20:45 schrieb accessys@smart.net:
>>
>>>
>>> scanned paper documents without tags or other access features to allow
> them to be used by all is missing the goal.  I am not saying anything is
> better than the other as long as they can be used by all.
>>>
>>> universal access is the goal.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, [iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 18:33:30 +0100
>>>> From: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>
>>>> To: accessys@smart.net, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>>>> Cc: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <olaf@druemmer.com>,
>>>>    "[iso-8859-1] Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>,
>>>>    Vivienne CONWAY <v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
>>>> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> you are moving the target a bit too quickly for my taste. A few
> minutes ago you scolded PDF for being a cheap electronic print out
> mechanism, now you bring scanned PDFs into the game.
>>>>
>>>> So are you implying, HTML (or some other format) is a better format
> for scanned paper documents?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Olaf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 1 Mar 2013 um 18:15 schrieb accessys@smart.net:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree pdf has made great strides but getting archivist especially
> to tag the documents they scan is getting harderd and harder it seems
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Friday, 1 March 2013 22:39:07 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Friday, 1 March 2013 22:39:08 GMT