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Re: Invisible elements for additional link text [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

From: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:17:41 +0200
Message-ID: <CA++-QFefGq971NLAvbdCo89y6QsyneLa8OfMXU9DTeEjO-8=Tw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joe Chidzik <joe.chidzik@abilitynet.org.uk>
Cc: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, "deborah.kaplan@suberic.net" <deborah.kaplan@suberic.net>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Thanks Deborah and Joe. Sounds to me as if you are using slightly different
methods to try and achieve the same thing (i.e., jump to the link
destination). By the sound of it, Deborah, you are trying dictate the full
link description (including the 'hidden' part), whereas Joe is simply
dictating part of the visible text, then chooses one of the links offered.

Deborah, it wasn't clear to me what Dragon actually 'sees'. In other words,
were the hidden parts visible to Dragon, or did you try to use them because
you knew they were there?

Regards, Harry



On 14 September 2012 09:46, Joe Chidzik <joe.chidzik@abilitynet.org.uk>wrote:

> That echos my tests Jonathan. The Dragon documentation states that you
> need only say part of the text to follow a link, or activate a control. In
> this case, saying "Click Read", or "Click more" highlighted all three
> links. Perhaps it behaves differently on different platforms though - I'm
> on Windows 7.
>
> In any event, I agree that the ideal scenario is to have sensible and
> unique link text from the outset, though I appreciate this may not always
>  be possible - with CMS output, for instance.
>
> Regards
> Joe
>
> > Deborah, in my tests with off-screen text placed before and after
> on-screen link text
> > in spans provided slightly different results.  For example, when I spoke
> the on-screen
> > text Dragon Naturally Speaking 11.5 Pro provided indicators for each of
> the different
> > links with that text.  I did find that the link text "read more" was not
> good as Dragon
> > has a command "click restore" that it had trouble differentiating.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net [mailto:deborah.kaplan@suberic.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:08 AM
> > To: Harry Loots
> > Cc: Joe Chidzik; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: Invisible elements for additional link text [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
> >
> > I was the person who sent the original e-mail mentioning Dragon
> NaturallySpeaking,
> > so to answer a few questions and clear a couple of
> > misconceptions:
> >
> > 1. On the test page I just created
> > (<http://suberic.net/~deborah.kaplan/foo.html>) and tested with
> NaturallySpeaking
> > 11.5 and Internet Explorer 9, Opera 12, and Firefox 15, it was never as
> easy as these
> > usual disambiguating numbers next to the links. Internet Explorer
> insisted on the full
> > invisible name of the link being dictated -- even though that is
> invisible to the screen --
> > and could not disambiguate between two of these links which had
> identical text; it
> > always choose the first selection. Opera could hear the names of the
> links but
> > refused to select any of them, and Firefox was just thoroughly confused.
> So for
> > Dragon user to reach any of these links it would be MORE difficult then
> it would be for
> > them to reach a page that didn't have the invisible text. Dictating the
> names of the
> > links would fail, and the Dragon user would have *no idea why*.
> >
> > Yes, she could access the links by other means (voice tabbing or voice
> mouse
> > control, for example), but this would be after repeatedly trying to
> dictate the name of
> > the link.
> >
> > I'm going to run more tests on this when I have more time, because if
> this is accurate
> > it is going to make me stop recommending this technique for partial link
> text.
> >
> > In any case, in my opinion, this fails 3.2, predictability.
> >
> > 2. I would hope that anyone who uses the tooltip solution suggested
> earlier makes
> > sure that tooltip is also activated on tab as well as mouse over,
> otherwise we come
> > back to a solution which is broken for Dragon users.
> >
> > -Deborah
> > --
> > Deborah Kaplan
> > accessibility team co-lead
> > dreamwidth Studios LLC
>
Received on Friday, 14 September 2012 09:18:12 UTC

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