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RE: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

From: Roger Hudson <rhudson@usability.com.au>
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:40:19 +1000
To: "'Jonathan Avila'" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, "'richarduserite'" <richard@userite.com>
Cc: "'WAI Interest Group'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <E1M00UC-0003Fv-0U@bart.w3.org>
Hi Jonathan,

 

My comment about structural labels is meant to refer only to labels that
identify the structure of the page – e.g. “main navigation”, “section
navigation”, “footer” etc. For these structural sections, I feel that the
actual presentation of the content on the page, such as the main navigation
bar across top and sectional navigation down the side, will in my opinion
provide enough clues to content of each section for nearly all people with
low vision. But for people who rely on screen readers it provides them with
additional information about the overall structure of the page – in some
ways analogous to the use of the summary attribute with data tables. In our
testing we have observed a number of screen reader users experiencing
difficulties separating main site-wide navigation from the navigation to
pages within a particular section of a site, since depending on the design
of the page these two lists of links will sometimes just run together when
presented by a screen reader.

Of course, if the design team and client are happy to include these
structural labels in the screen display all the better, but often this is
not the case.

 

Regards

 

Roger

 

 

Roger Hudson

Web Usability

Ph: 02 9568 1535

Mb: 0405 320 014

Email:  <mailto:rhudson@usability.com.au> rhudson@usability.com.au

Web:  <http://www.usability.com.au/> www.usability.com.au 

Blog: www.dingoaccess.com   

 

Freezer 15: Impressed with Ralph’s financial creativity, Ray Purvis tells
the real estate agent to make an offer for the Thomas Deli.

http://www.dingoaccess.com/freezer/freezer-ep-15-make-an-offer/  

 

 

  _____  

From: Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 2 May 2009 12:49 AM
To: 'Roger Hudson'; 'richarduserite'
Cc: 'WAI Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

 

Roger,

*       When it comes to structural labels I feel removing them from the
display area is not a problem since there are sufficient visual clues to the
different components of the page.

 

One of the benefits of checkpoint
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#navigation-mechanisms-descri
ptive> 2.4.6 Headings and Labels: Headings and
<http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-descriptive
.html#labeldef> labels describe topic or purpose. (Level AA) is that they
are visually on the screen.   If a browser lists the off-screen headings in
a list of the user to choose, how will a low vision user match up the
on-screen content to the list of off-screen headings?  Adding the proper
heading text on-screen and through markup will benefit a large audience of
people with disabilities.

 

Jonathan

 

From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Roger Hudson
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:44 PM
To: 'Jonathan Avila'; 'richarduserite'
Cc: 'WAI Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

 

I agree that display:none is definitely problematic and the use of CSS to
position skip links off and on screen is better. However, I feel that the
best option of all is to display well worded skip links all the time. When
it comes to structural labels I feel removing them from the display area is
not a problem since there are sufficient visual clues to the different
components of the page.

 

This issue also relates to SC 2.4.1 see techniques:


G1: Adding a link at the top of each page that goes directly to the main
content area


H69: Providing heading elements at the beginning of each section of content

 

For what it is worth, several years ago Russ Weakley and I did some research
into the use of skip links and structural labels by screen reader users. A
report can be found at
<http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm>
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm 

 

Regards

Roger

 

 

 

  _____  

From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 10:46 PM
To: 'richarduserite'; 'Mag Leahy'
Cc: 'Ramón Corominas'; 'WAI Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

 

Richard,

*      I need to do some thinking about this because it is not only blind
users who need to use the skip links anchor. It needs to be available to
anyone who does not have access to a mouse.

You could use CSS to position the link on-screen when it is focused and
off-screen when it is not focused.

 

*      Headings for navigation menus is a WAI requirement.

What requirement are you referring to?

 

Jonathan

 

From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of richarduserite
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:48 AM
To: Mag Leahy
Cc: Ramón Corominas; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

 

Hi Mag,

 

Thanks for that, it is interesting,  Jaws 7 does announce hidden anchors,
but I have done a bit of research
(http://juicystudio.com/article/screen-readers-display-none.php) and you are
right. It seems that display:none is not reliable with some screen readers.
I need to do some thinking about this because it is not only blind users who
need to use the skip links anchor. It needs to be available to anyone who
does not have access to a mouse. 

 

I also use display:none for headings of lists (e.g navigation menus) in the
belief that all screen readers will read the heading. Headings for
navigation menus is a WAI requirement.

 

Richard

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Mag Leahy <mailto:magleahy@gmail.com>  

To: richarduserite <mailto:richard@userite.com>  

Cc: Ramón <mailto:listas@ramoncorominas.com>  Corominas ; WAI
<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>  Interest Group 

Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:23 PM

Subject: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

 

Hello all, 

Please note, do not use display:none as it will not be available to screen
reader users. 
Use negative positioning e.g. 

.removed {
    left:-900000px; /* accessible display:none - read by screenreaders */
    position:absolute !important;
    width:1px;
    font-size:1px;
}

Note this assumes it will never be visually on the page when css is on hence
the width and font-size.

Cheers, 
Mag

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:13 PM, richarduserite <richard@userite.com>
wrote:

Hi,

By hiding the link using CSS hides it from visual users, but not from
assistive software such as screen readers. Thus the link is still accessible
for blind people. However a sighted user who uses the keyboard (there are
many) will not see the link and be forced to tab through all your navigation
links in order to reach your content. Ideally, therefore, the "Skip to
content" link should be visible so that sighted keyboard users can make use
of it as well as blind users.

If you need to use CSS to hide the link from mouse users the easiest
solution is to use the CSS pseudoclass a:active to make the link text
visible when it is focused by the keyboard user. Note that positioning the
link off the page as you suggest is not the best way to hide such a link.
Some visual browsers do not accept negative dimensions and therefore can
distort your page layout. It is much safer to use CSS to hide an element
(display:none), perhaps create a class to do this

.skip a:link {display: none ; }
.skip a:active { display:block ; }

then you link would be
<a href="#content" class="skip" tabindex="1" >Skip to content</a>

Also note that you do not need to use the tabindex attribute. In fact it is
better if you avoid tabindex altogether (it takes control away from the
user).

Best wishes
Richard


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>
To: "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order


> Hi, all.
>
> I'm reading the Understanding SC 2.4.7 about Focus Order, and I'm in
> doubt about what is the meaning of "having a mode of operation that...".
>
> For instance, if I have a hidden "skip to contents" link (via css
> off-left), when a user tabs to this link the focus will not be visible;
> but if the user disables CSS, in this "mode" the link will be visible
> and also the focus. My question is: would this be considered valid?
> Should we show all the links to comply with this criterion? Are
> css-hidden links forbidden?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ramón.
>
>
>




-- 
Mag
Received on Friday, 1 May 2009 21:42:04 GMT

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