W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > April to June 2005

Re: Accessibility of "CHM" format resources

From: Orion Adrian <orion.adrian@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:23:59 -0400
Message-ID: <abd6c801050606102313149ad2@mail.gmail.com>
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org

As a background, I'm a certified Master CSS2 programmer who has been
espousing non-pixel perfect usable designs for a long time.

CSS still stinks.

And it while the support of browser vendors hurts, it's not what I'm
talking about.

I'm talking about the pains it takes to setup a multi-column layout.
I'm talking about poor naming of elements.
I'm talking about implicit interactions between properties that
authors still have to learn.
I'm talking about thge lack of user constants, a simple construct with
no cascading technical issues.
I'm talking about the absurdity that are the display models (box,
inline, replaced, table, list)  Some are good, most are bad
(especially table).
I'm talking about the lack of critical features for even non
pixel-perfect layouts (text wrapping).
I'm talking about the inability to specify clearly that one element is
relative to another independant of the relationship in code.
I'm talking about the claim that CSS works with many languages (as
long as they're tree-based and called HTML or XML).
I'm talking about the non-modularity (only recently addressed) of CSS
and the total lack of extension mechanism including those things that
would allow for other languages to be styled.
I'm talking about all the little annoyances that come about any time
I've ever tried to code up a CSS page.

Orion Adrian

On 6/6/05, Cheryl D. Wise <cdwise@wiserways.com> wrote:
> 
> I must agree with you Tina I css is perfectly usable in its current state.
> Espouses if "designers" would give up their quest for pixel perfect cross
> platform, cross bower display and relax a bit about differences in
> presentation.
> 
> This mania for XML  The "new"  native file format for office 12 will be XML.
> 
> 
> Microsoft adding XML files to Office 12 | CNET News.com
> http://news.com.com/Microsoft+adding+XML+files+to+Office+12/2100-7344_3-5728
> 536.html?part=rss&tag=5728536&subj=news
> 
> 
> Cheryl D. Wise
> Certified Professional Web Developer
> Microsoft FrontPage MVP
> http://wiserways.com
> http://starttoweb.com - Next Class Session Starts June 26, 2005
> Office: 713-353-0139
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tina Holmboe
> 
> On  6 Jun, Orion Adrian wrote:
> 
> > Well frankly the W3C has been doing a lousy job of late. It took 6
> 
>   I agree - it pains me to look at WCAG 2 and XHTML 2.
> 
> > versions of HTML to get even close to an accessible spec. CSS still is
> > unusable for most of the web and requires such an act of contortion to
> > get anywhere near a desireable result.
> 
>   ... where?
> 
>   It's taken us 15 - *fifteen* - years of work getting to a point where
>   the idea that "usable" means "getting the exact same look in all
>   situations"?
> 
>   If not, I am happy to tell you that CSS works exceptionally well in
>   real life situations *today* - *if* the person using it accepts two
>   vital facts: graceful degradation is a must, not an option, and not
>   all designs belong on the web[*]
> 
>   We have oodles of work left to us - in particular with the downwards
>   spiral into meaningless complexity we seem to be on these days - but
>   CSS isn't a field where the W3C deserve our scorn.[**]
> 
>   Me, and many with me, doubt accessibility - despite it's slightly
>   skewed direction at the moment - would have seen much daylight had WAI
>   not been involved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  [*]
>   Not all designs belong on paper, either. The design must be adapted to
>   the medium; adapating the medium to the design as so many has struggled
>   to do ever since 1990 is a futile effort.
> 
>  [**]
>   Yes, it could be better. It could be MUCH better. So could browser
>   support.
> 
> --
>  -    Tina Holmboe                    Greytower Technologies
>    tina@greytower.net                http://www.greytower.net/
>    [+46] 0708 557 905
> 
> 
>
Received on Monday, 6 June 2005 17:24:29 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 19 July 2011 18:14:21 GMT