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Re: Is an empty alt attribute ok when...

From: david poehlman <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 06:43:41 -0400
Message-ID: <000501c55a04$21eb3980$6501a8c0@DAVIDPC>
To: "Stuart Smith" <Stuart.M.Smith@manchester.ac.uk>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>

Stew,

You are correct.  I do not advocate putting the same info in alt as caption. 
They are differententities, but if an image is important enough to have a 
caption, it is important enough to have an alt and not just for users of 
screen readers.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stuart Smith" <Stuart.M.Smith@manchester.ac.uk>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:52 AM
Subject: FW: Is an empty alt attribute ok when...




Is the question about the strict application of standards or the usability
and accessibility of the site?

If you put an alt tag and the caption and they both essentially say the same
thing then you are forcing the user to go through it all twice.

This is why I suggest trying the site with a non-sighted user, using a
screen reader. It might be heresy to suggest it but strict application of
the standards here might cause confusion and that has got to be negative.

If you want to use the alt tag as well as the caption in this specific case
then I would suggest making sure the alt says something that was originally
only described in the image but in the case describe it would be pretty
difficult other than something like "Now considering water's atomic bonds"?

Cheers

Stu



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of david poehlman
Sent: 13 May 2005 16:47
To: David Balch; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Is an empty alt attribute ok when...


caption and alt are two different things.  alt replaces an image, a
captionis afoot note to it.  If you have an image of a person eating noodles

with chopsticks, you can put a description in the caption if you like but it

should be a short one as has been pointed out.  Thealt though should be
something that makes sense when images are notloaded such as do you like
eating noodles with chopsticks?  or I eat noodles with chopsticks, or some
people eat noodles with chopsticks.  What does the image mean is what goes
in/do goes in the alt, image enhancement information would go in the caption

ana description would go in long desc.  To bad we don't just have a desc
tag.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Balch" <david.balch@continuing-education.oxford.ac.uk>
To: "'david poehlman'" <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>;
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: Is an empty alt attribute ok when...



Hi,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: david poehlman [mailto:david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com]
> Sent: 13 May 2005 13:34
>
> The short answer is no unless you are using it in a link.
> Alt replaces, it does not describe.

But if the accompanying caption contains text that fulfils the same function
as the image it should be ok to leave alt blank, surely?

I fear that my use of the word "describe" distracted from the real question
I was posing.

Cheers,
Dave.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: david poehlman [mailto:david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com]
> Sent: 13 May 2005 13:34
> To: David Balch; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Is an empty alt attribute ok when...
>
> The short answer is no unless you are using it in a link.
> Alt replaces, it does not describe.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Balch" <david.balch@continuing-education.oxford.ac.uk>
> To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:11 AM
> Subject: Is an empty alt attribute ok when...
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm writing a short guide describing the information that
> should accompany
> images in content my group produces: title, caption, attribution,
> alternative equivilant.
>
> I would apprieciate feedback on the approach I've taken to alternative
> equivilant content. In particular, a case where the
> information content of
> the image is described in the image caption - is it
> acceptable to leave the
> alt attribute empty? (See the "Covalent bonding in a molecule
> of water"
> part.)
>
> http://tall.conted.ox.ac.uk/testarea/david/image/ImageExamples.html
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
> -- 
> David Balch.          | Web developer.
> T: +44 (0)1865 280979 | Technology-Assisted Lifelong Learning.
> F: +44 (0)1865 280982 | University of Oxford.
> E: david.balch@conted.ox.ac.uk
>
> TALL, OUDCE and the University of Oxford accept no legal
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Received on Monday, 16 May 2005 11:15:49 GMT

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