W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2003

Re: ALT as required attribute

From: Jim Ley <jim@jibbering.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:16:31 -0000
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-ID: <b1qo67$47a$1@main.gmane.org>


"Bill Mason" <w3c@accessibleinter.net> wrote in message
news:5.2.0.9.0.20030204114046.00c6c118@accessibleinter.net...
>
> > >But it does clearly say that the attribute
> > >is to "specify alternate text to serve as content when the element
> > >cannot be rendered normally."  Thus in scenarios where the image
> > >has rendered normally, the ALT content should not be presented
> > >by a user agent in any fashion, tooltip or otherwise.
> >
> >That would suggest an ALT text of "This image will be available tomorrow"
is
> >ok
>
> Unless that is the message that the image itself is meant to convey, then
> that would not in fact be OK.

Correct, however it "serves as content when the image cannot be rendered
normally" which is all the HTML specification mentions for ALT, the HTML
specifiation is not a relevant document here.

> I do not see this in the spec unconditionally.  Rendering the image and
ALT
> content simultaneously is *one* option, not *the* option (guideline 2.3
> section 2). I do also see:

Absolutely, it's an option, it's an option I require for an html document to
be made accessible to me, if the UAAG said anything else I would've raised
an issue against it, but it doesn't it's fine, choice is the key thing,
what's right for you, is not right for me, you can have a browser which
takes a different option, my UA chooses the one I quoted - both are correct,
do not deny me an accessible user agent.  If IE changed, I'd struggle (other
than on my own computer where I even modify IE's behaviour to make the ALT
more accessible)

> "Allow configuration to provide access to each piece of unrendered
> conditional content"
> Unless your browser cannot turn off images, or view properties of an image
> through a right-click (or similar mechanism), you already have access to
> the ALT content.

Appalling access, turning off all images is simply not adequate - I miss all
the images I do understand, and have no opportunity to learn, Mozilla still
has bugs with regard to ALT, and javascript, whereby if ALT is changed by
javascript it is not made available unless images are enabled, I can't use
buggy browsers.

> >So there's plenty of support, and as a user who requires this, I fail to
> >see how you can argue
> >against it?
>
> Among other things, the specs you cite to support your position explicitly
> refute your stance.

Then I hope you would agree that if the specs to say that (which I don't
agree with at all), they are broken, as my User Agent is made non-conformant
to them by making an HTML document accessible to me.  I hope I can count on
your support on getting them changed.

Jim.

(Please snip text, not all of us have high speed connections, and 9k when 3k
would be plenty is not friendly)
Received on Wednesday, 5 February 2003 05:16:34 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 19 July 2011 18:14:08 GMT