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RE: A new one: label vs. Scope

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:01:19 -0500
To: Mike Scott <mscott2@msfw.com>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Cc: "'Charles McCathieNevile'" <charles@w3.org>
Message-id: <HDEAKIPKOHBCMDILOOPNCEKLDOAA.jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Visually and programmatically fieldset functions as a container. The problem
is that fieldset (with legend) are not seen as being directly associated
with enclosed controls by the assistive technology. AT generally treat
fieldset/legend as more text on the screen not directly associated with
anything.  The problem lies with the AT. HTML has already provided the
structure.

Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"I see the Earth. It is so beautiful."--first words spoken by human in
space.
[Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin, from the Vostok 1, April 12, 1961.]


-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Mike Scott
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:11 AM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Cc: 'Charles McCathieNevile'
Subject: RE: A new one: label vs. Scope


Good point Charles.

Once we give the assistive technologies (and the users with assistive
technologies) a little more time to catch up, fieldset and legend will
solve many of these forms-related issues. (JAWS 4.02 and HPR 3.02 are
actually doing a pretty good job with fieldset already.)

I don't think even fieldset is going to help us in the "tabular
form"-type examples -- but maybe it's not really an issue for HTML, but
rather a matter of getting the screen readers to merge their "forms" and
"tables" reading modes...

Mike

p.s. just wondering (no practical example in mind) -- is it valid to
"nest" fieldsets?

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles McCathieNevile [mailto:charles@w3.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:53 AM
To: Mike Scott
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org; 'Andy J. W. Affleck'
Subject: RE: A new one: label vs. Scope

On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Mike Scott wrote:

  It is unfortunate that HTML doesn't offer a way of assigning multiple
  form fields to a single label (and vice versa).

It does. Fieldset/legend assign one label to multiple controls:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET

Assigning multiple labels to a single control isn't generally possible
as far as I know, unless you use multiple layers of headings in tables
and have a tool that lets you find out what all the headers are (tablin
can do this as a proxy service, but I don't know of a stand-alone
browser that manages it). You can use a label inside a fieldset, which
lets you have two ways of labelling the same thing.

cheers

Chaals




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Received on Wednesday, 24 April 2002 14:10:12 GMT

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