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Re: Tables and CSS

From: Ineke van der Maat <inekemaa@xs4all.nl>
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:55:41 -0800
Message-ID: <001401c18deb$1b079fc0$63a76dc2@xs4all.nl>
To: "Vadim Plessky" <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Hi Vadim,

When you think that tables for layout are bad , do you know another way to
create different backgrounds in a page  using CSS that is still accessible??

Greetings
Ineke van der Maat




----- Original Message -----
From: "Vadim Plessky" <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>
To: "Kynn Bartlett" <kynn-edapta@idyllmtn.com>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: Tables and CSS


> On Tuesday 25 December 2001 18:02, Kynn Bartlett wrote:
> |   At 11:27 AM +0000 12/25/01, Vadim Plessky wrote:
> |   >|   Lemme say that again since it rarely gets said:
> |   >|         LAYOUT TABLES DO NOT PRESENT ANY MORE OR LESS A BARRIER TO
> |   >|         ACCESS THAN DOES CSS.
> |   >
> |   >BTW: I don't understand why you try to treat Tables separatly from
CSS.
> |   >yoy can define
> |   >a { display: table }
> |   >b { display: table-row }
> |   >c { display: table-cell }
> |
> |   How many assistive technologies will understand the above, and
> |   how many will understand <table> tags? :)
> |
>
> well, that was just *pure* XML, if assistive technologies can accept XML
they
> should accept this example as well.
>
> |   But as you say, <table> tags are just arbitrary elements with
> |   CSS table styling pre-applied.  If using tables for layout is evil,
> |   then surely so is the above, which is CSS!  You can do just as much
>
> Absolutely!
> I just wanted to demonstrate that there is no difference between CSS and
> Tables!
> But note that if you take CSS3, it's modular structure allows you to
> implement just part of specification.
> And you can have CSS3-enabled browser which *doesn't support* tables!
> Besides, Absolute (and Relative) positioning is also different module, so
you
> can't rely on it creating *universal* design.
> Still constructs like this:
>
> <html>
> <style type="text/css">
>  #L { float: left; width: 100px; height: 150px; border: 1px solid navy }
>  #R { background: silver; color: black; border: 1px dashed orange;
>  width: 60px; height: 80px;
>  float: right }
> </style>
> <body>
> <div id="L">menu on left side</div>
> some text, say main article
> <div id="R">short notice</div>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> remain very accessible while not using tables.
> it should look like this in browser supporting CSS (and 'float' property)
>  ______                    ______
>  |    L    |   main text   |    R   |
>  |          |                     |          |
>  |_____|                     |_____|
>
> while in Lynx every block will, most likely, just follow each other.
>
> Ah, for people who have MS IE6/Windows or MacIE5 I can give better code:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
>             "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
> <html>
> <style type="text/css">
>  #L { display: inline-block; width: 100px; height: 150px; border: 1px
solid
> navy }
>  #R { background: silver; color: black; border: 1px dashed orange;
>  width: 60px; height: 80px;
>  display: inline-block }
>  .article { width: auto;  display: inline-block; height: 150px }
> </style>
> <body>
> <div id="L">menu on left side</div>
> <div class="article">some text, say main article</div>
> <div id="R">short notice</div>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> Reason: those 2 browsers support CSS3: display: inline-block; property,
which
> greatly simplifies layout for examples like this.
>
> NOTE: do not forget to put HTML4 Strict DTD for IE, as otherwise it will
not
> work (it will render CSS in broken way)
>
> |   evil with CSS as with <table>, and -- see my other message for a
> |   discussion as to why generic tags like <div> are less useful than
> |   double-use tags like <table>.
>
> ah, what was the first: chicken or egg? ;-)
> |
> |   --Kynn
>
> --
>
> Vadim Plessky
> http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
> 33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
> http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
> KDE mini-Themes
> http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 25 December 2001 18:48:53 GMT

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