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Re: Fw: putting reader text in hidden <div> tags / adding pauses

From: Kirk Walker <kirk.walker@knowbility.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:58:44 -0600
Message-ID: <00ac01c17c1b$c51a9760$6301a8c0@carolyn>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Cc: <RandR@SEC.GOV>
My experience with "Hidden" classes of text where the test is defined as the
same color as the background is that they can be read by many screenreaders,
however, this is not the ideal solution in that they become visible if users
override the authors font colors and styles. The most reliable method that I
have seen is alt text to invisible images, as Phil suggested.

Kirk Walker
kirk.walker@knowbility.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Director of Technology
Knowbility, Inc.  http://www.knowbility.org
PO Box 684671
Austin, Texas 78768
Creating Universal Access to Internet Opportunities
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phill Jenkins" <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Cc: <RandR@SEC.GOV>; "Mike Scott" <mscott@msfw.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: putting reader text in hidden <div> tags / adding pauses


> Do you have a reference in the CSS spec that suggests that screen readers
> read out loud content styled with Visibility: Hidden?  I couldn't find one
> nor do I think screen readers should read anything marked hidden.
>
> WCAG CSS techniques don't mention it, but it does discuss "display: none"
> at   http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#style-info-not-in-color-alone
>
> Display property in CSS 2
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-display
> Visibility property in CSS2
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx.html#visibility
>
> Why would a screen reader want to read out loud something that the author
> marked as hidden?
>
> Alt text on an invisible image is still the best choice because it is
> supported best.
>
> HPR 3.02 is currently available from ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/sns/hpr
>
> Regards,
> Phill Jenkins
> IBM Research Division - Accessibility Center
> 11501 Burnet Rd,  Austin TX  78758    http://www.ibm.com/able
>
>
>
> Mike Scott <mscott@msfw.com>@w3.org on 12/02/2001 02:12:59 AM
>
> Sent by:  w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org
>
>
> To:   <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> cc:   <RandR@SEC.GOV>
> Subject:  Re: Fw: putting reader text in hidden <div> tags / adding pauses
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, the about-to-be-released IBM Home Page Reader version
> 3.02 will no longer read text with Display: None (or Visibility: Hidden).
> JAWS (at least as of 4.0.103) will read it if Display: None (or
Visibility:
> Hidden) is set in the <style> block or in an external style sheet, but not
> if it is set in-line.
>
> According to the CSS specs, screen readers should NOT read content with
> Display: None but should read content with Visibility: Hidden.
>
> >
> > The original senders address was not available but I thought this a
> > worthy question to toss out.
> >
> > Hi, I'm a web developer for a federal agency website and a newcomer to
> > this list. We are experimenting with adding text for for screen readers
> > to our home page and index pages that is hidden from the visual
> > browser window with the following coding:
> >
> > <div style="display:none;">reader text goes here. . . .</div>
> >
> > I have verified that Netscape 4.7, Explorer 5, and Opera 5.12 won't
> > show the hidden text visually but that IBM Home Page Reader will
> > read the text.  We haven't yet tested the coding with JAWS.
> > Is anyone else using this coding or can someone recommend another
> > approach?
> >
> > What prompted this experimentation was that in conversation with some
> > of our staff using screen readers, we discovered that our home page,
> > with 70+ links, is overwhelming. Visually the organization is clear,
> > but the screen reader simply reads all the links one after the other
> > without the benefit of identifying main link headings. We want to add
> > a more explanatory menu for screen readers with just the main links to
> > our important index pages, uncluttered by secondary links that they
> > would find on the second level index pages anyway.
> >
> > Second question is: has anyone had success with adding coding that
> > provides a pause for screen readers between lists of links? Is that
> > important?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
> > <snipped>
> >
> > Bob Rand, Web developer
> > Securities and Exchange Commission
>
>
>
>


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Received on Monday, 3 December 2001 11:56:06 GMT

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