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Re: Fw: putting reader text in hidden <div> tags / adding pauses

From: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:46:35 -0600
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Cc: RandR@SEC.GOV, Mike Scott <mscott@msfw.com>
Message-ID: <OFE8138EFD.095E9379-ON86256B17.00527C93@raleigh.ibm.com >
Do you have a reference in the CSS spec that suggests that screen readers
read out loud content styled with Visibility: Hidden?  I couldn't find one
nor do I think screen readers should read anything marked hidden.

WCAG CSS techniques don't mention it, but it does discuss "display: none"
at   http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#style-info-not-in-color-alone

Display property in CSS 2
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-display
Visibility property in CSS2
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx.html#visibility

Why would a screen reader want to read out loud something that the author
marked as hidden?

Alt text on an invisible image is still the best choice because it is
supported best.

HPR 3.02 is currently available from ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/sns/hpr

Regards,
Phill Jenkins
IBM Research Division - Accessibility Center
11501 Burnet Rd,  Austin TX  78758    http://www.ibm.com/able



Mike Scott <mscott@msfw.com>@w3.org on 12/02/2001 02:12:59 AM

Sent by:  w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org


To:   <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
cc:   <RandR@SEC.GOV>
Subject:  Re: Fw: putting reader text in hidden <div> tags / adding pauses



For what it's worth, the about-to-be-released IBM Home Page Reader version
3.02 will no longer read text with Display: None (or Visibility: Hidden).
JAWS (at least as of 4.0.103) will read it if Display: None (or Visibility:
Hidden) is set in the <style> block or in an external style sheet, but not
if it is set in-line.

According to the CSS specs, screen readers should NOT read content with
Display: None but should read content with Visibility: Hidden.

>
> The original senders address was not available but I thought this a
> worthy question to toss out.
>
> Hi, I'm a web developer for a federal agency website and a newcomer to
> this list. We are experimenting with adding text for for screen readers
> to our home page and index pages that is hidden from the visual
> browser window with the following coding:
>
> <div style="display:none;">reader text goes here. . . .</div>
>
> I have verified that Netscape 4.7, Explorer 5, and Opera 5.12 won't
> show the hidden text visually but that IBM Home Page Reader will
> read the text.  We haven't yet tested the coding with JAWS.
> Is anyone else using this coding or can someone recommend another
> approach?
>
> What prompted this experimentation was that in conversation with some
> of our staff using screen readers, we discovered that our home page,
> with 70+ links, is overwhelming. Visually the organization is clear,
> but the screen reader simply reads all the links one after the other
> without the benefit of identifying main link headings. We want to add
> a more explanatory menu for screen readers with just the main links to
> our important index pages, uncluttered by secondary links that they
> would find on the second level index pages anyway.
>
> Second question is: has anyone had success with adding coding that
> provides a pause for screen readers between lists of links? Is that
> important?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> <snipped>
>
> Bob Rand, Web developer
> Securities and Exchange Commission
Received on Monday, 3 December 2001 10:48:10 GMT

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