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Re: w3c - Scope attribute in Table tag

From: <Andrew.Arch@visionaustralia.org.au>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:42:23 +1000
Cc: dine@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org, w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF5E620AE7.BA38F2D8-ONCA256A88.00136A54@domino.bigpond.com>

We have JAWS 3.70 as standard within Vision Australia for those staff
needing a screen reader and some recent testing I have done on tables with
3.70.87 is that JAWS is smart. Navigating tables with the JAWS table
keystrokes we can get the row and column headers read out (CTL-ALT-Num Pad
5) to us even if the table has not been marked up with accessible
attributes (eg ID & HEADERS).

I have alos found that the ABBR attribute is quite handy if you have a long
row/column heading that can be abbreviated satisfactorily.

Jean-Marie D'Amour recently pointed out a quirk to me in HPR too - it
doesn't seem to reset its tables ID's when you move to a new data table. So
- make sure each table uses a unique set of ID's for the rows and columns
as required. Has anyone esl had experience with this possible "feature"?

Dr Andrew Arch
Manager, Internet Product Development
Vision Australia Foundation
Ph 613 9864 9222; Fax 613 9864 9210
Mobile 0438 755 565

Member, Education & Outreach Working Group,
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative

                    McCaffrey"             To:     <dine@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>,                   
                    <SMCCAFFR@MAIL.        <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>                                
                    NYSED.GOV>             cc:                                                
                    Sent by:               Subject:     Re: w3c - Scope attribute in Table    
                    w3c-wai-ig-requ        tag                                                
                    13/07/01 00:56                                                            

Hello Brooke:

For me, using JFW 3.31, neither coding renders the table described in the
HTML Techniques documentt, (the "Cups of Coffee example) as indicated.
Instead of the speech synthesis rendering described there, I hear

Cups of coffee consumed by each senator

NameCupsType of CoffeeSugar?

T. Sexton

J. Dinnen

Note also, I do not hear the summary attribute, only the Caption attribute.
Others with different versions may have different experiences.


Steve McCaffrey

>>> "Brooke Dine" <dine@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov> 07/12/01 10:26AM >>>
Yes, I'm just full of questions this week.  Thanks to everyone for the info
on requirements/procedures.

Next question:  I'm attempting to figure out the proper method of tagging
for tables.  In the past I had used <th> and <td> with "header" and "id" as
per W3C.  However, the 508 requirements from the Access Board say to just
use the scope attribute.  What do you all think?  Which is better for data
tables? and layout tables?  Which readers pick up the scope tag?

As always, thanks!
Brooke Dine
Information Specialist
National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI)
National Library of Medicine/NIH
Bethesda, MD 20892
Received on Thursday, 12 July 2001 23:47:48 UTC

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