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RE: Form labeling and user agent support

From: Jim Thatcher <thatch@attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 22:49:52 -0500
To: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ <ADAM.GUASCH@EEOC.GOV>, rneff@bbnow.net, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-id: <NDBBKJDAKKEJDCICIODLMEBBDBAA.thatch@attglobal.net>
Al,

In the section of the course on Web Accessibility for Section 508 that I
have done for ITTATC (http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse8.htm) I added the
comments about title after going through all the usual methods - sort a post
script.

I don't feel good about that. I think Title solves the serious deficiency of
label and I believe it will be supported by screen readers quickly.

My understanding is that Window-Eyes currently supports title on input
elements; HPR will support it in a point release, and JFW is "interested."
The browser in all cases is, in effect, IE.
Jim
jim@jimthatcher.com
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931

  -----Original Message-----
  From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Al Gilman
  Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 6:29 PM
  To: ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ; rneff@bbnow.net; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
  Subject: RE: Form labeling and user agent support


  In a similar thread on the GL list, Jim Thatcher suggested we not bother
with LABEL and just use a TITLE on a form control.  That was an edit box
control.  But the idea might be the same, here.  I am still hoping to learn
more about the "implementation status" of TITLE on INPUT.  What browser and
screen reader combinations get this information to the user, and which
don't?


<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2001AprJun/thread.html#113>

  If we have reasonable implementation coverage on this, or even on
TITLE -OR- LABEL and the web page does both -- that could be a way to
respect the visual norm where the checkboxes line up at the head of their
list items.

  At 03:45 PM 2001-05-02 -0500, ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ wrote:
  >Yes, we're doing that too. We're using FIELDSET and LEGEND to group/label
the ordering info (name, address, etc.), as well as grouping various
categories of related documents.
  >
  >>>> "Robert Neff" <rneff@bbnow.net> 05/02/01 02:39pm >>>
  >labels are just one part of WCAG version 1. are you also trying to
implement
  >fieldsets?  refernce
  >http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET
  >
  >here si teh cut and pastes for the WCAG:
  >12.3 Divide large blocks of information into more manageable groups where
  >natural and appropriate. [Priority 2] (Checkpoint 12.3)
  >HTML Techniques: Structural grouping
  >HTML Techniques: Grouping form controls
  >12.4 Associate labels explicitly with their controls. [Priority 2]
  >(Checkpoint 12.4)
  >HTML Techniques: Labeling form controls
  >
  >-----Original Message-----
  >From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
  >Behalf Of ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ
  >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:48 PM
  >To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
  >Subject: RE: Form labeling and user agent support
  >
  >
  >That requirement states:
  >
  >"When electronic forms are designed to be completed on-line, the form
shall
  >allow people using assistive technology to access the information, field
  >elements, and functionality required for completion and submission of the
  >form, including all directions and cues."
  >
  >As I read it, the same question applies: does using form labeling "allow
  >people using assistive technology to access the information, field
elements,
  >and functionality" given the current state of user agent support? I see
no
  >real difference between this and the relevant sections of the WCAG. An
  >answer to one answers the other.
  >
  >If you're wondering why I asked my question in the context of the WCAG
  >instead of the federal guidelines, it's because I find the Access Board's
  >work to be a decent start, but on the whole a watered-down and
insufficient
  >standard. I'll comply with it, of course, but I aim for a higher standard
  >
  >
  >>>> "Cynthia Waddell" <cynthia.waddell@psinetcs.com> 05/02/01 12:37pm >>>
  >Will you not be following the requirements of the Electronic and
Information
  >Technology Accessibility Standards for web forms at Section 1194.22(n)?
  >
  >Cynthia Waddell
  >
Received on Thursday, 3 May 2001 23:51:53 GMT

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