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RE: Form labeling and user agent support

From: Jim Thatcher <thatch@attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 22:49:52 -0500
To: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ <ADAM.GUASCH@EEOC.GOV>, rneff@bbnow.net, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-id: <NDBBKJDAKKEJDCICIODLMEBBDBAA.thatch@attglobal.net>

In the section of the course on Web Accessibility for Section 508 that I
have done for ITTATC (http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse8.htm) I added the
comments about title after going through all the usual methods - sort a post

I don't feel good about that. I think Title solves the serious deficiency of
label and I believe it will be supported by screen readers quickly.

My understanding is that Window-Eyes currently supports title on input
elements; HPR will support it in a point release, and JFW is "interested."
The browser in all cases is, in effect, IE.
Accessibility Consulting

  -----Original Message-----
  From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Al Gilman
  Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 6:29 PM
  To: ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ; rneff@bbnow.net; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
  Subject: RE: Form labeling and user agent support

  In a similar thread on the GL list, Jim Thatcher suggested we not bother
with LABEL and just use a TITLE on a form control.  That was an edit box
control.  But the idea might be the same, here.  I am still hoping to learn
more about the "implementation status" of TITLE on INPUT.  What browser and
screen reader combinations get this information to the user, and which


  If we have reasonable implementation coverage on this, or even on
TITLE -OR- LABEL and the web page does both -- that could be a way to
respect the visual norm where the checkboxes line up at the head of their
list items.

  At 03:45 PM 2001-05-02 -0500, ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ wrote:
  >Yes, we're doing that too. We're using FIELDSET and LEGEND to group/label
the ordering info (name, address, etc.), as well as grouping various
categories of related documents.
  >>>> "Robert Neff" <rneff@bbnow.net> 05/02/01 02:39pm >>>
  >labels are just one part of WCAG version 1. are you also trying to
  >fieldsets?  refernce
  >here si teh cut and pastes for the WCAG:
  >12.3 Divide large blocks of information into more manageable groups where
  >natural and appropriate. [Priority 2] (Checkpoint 12.3)
  >HTML Techniques: Structural grouping
  >HTML Techniques: Grouping form controls
  >12.4 Associate labels explicitly with their controls. [Priority 2]
  >(Checkpoint 12.4)
  >HTML Techniques: Labeling form controls
  >-----Original Message-----
  >From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
  >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:48 PM
  >To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
  >Subject: RE: Form labeling and user agent support
  >That requirement states:
  >"When electronic forms are designed to be completed on-line, the form
  >allow people using assistive technology to access the information, field
  >elements, and functionality required for completion and submission of the
  >form, including all directions and cues."
  >As I read it, the same question applies: does using form labeling "allow
  >people using assistive technology to access the information, field
  >and functionality" given the current state of user agent support? I see
  >real difference between this and the relevant sections of the WCAG. An
  >answer to one answers the other.
  >If you're wondering why I asked my question in the context of the WCAG
  >instead of the federal guidelines, it's because I find the Access Board's
  >work to be a decent start, but on the whole a watered-down and
  >standard. I'll comply with it, of course, but I aim for a higher standard
  >>>> "Cynthia Waddell" <cynthia.waddell@psinetcs.com> 05/02/01 12:37pm >>>
  >Will you not be following the requirements of the Electronic and
  >Technology Accessibility Standards for web forms at Section 1194.22(n)?
  >Cynthia Waddell
Received on Thursday, 3 May 2001 23:51:53 UTC

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