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RE: Flash access: Unclear on the concept

From: Robert Neff <rneff@bbnow.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:53:20 -0600
To: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@home.com>, "Kynn Bartlett" <kynn-edapta@idyllmtn.com>, "Joe Clark" <joeclark@joeclark.org>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
cookies are not the cure all.  corporate security and network policies may
not allow them or better yet, the user may not allow them.  secure socket
layer (SSL) can also cause problems. basically the implementation of the
cookie is important especially when it comes to session management and how
information is stored on the server as well as is passed between forms.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@home.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 11:37 AM
To: Robert Neff; Kynn Bartlett; Joe Clark; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Flash access: Unclear on the concept

Rob, thanks for your input here.  I'd like tosee site developpers make
it possible for pwd to identify them selves on sites.  I know that
there are lots of places for comments and such but since ats are not
loggable and the logs are what they steer by, perhaps this could be
another way.  alternately, it might be possible for browser
developpers to provide a cookie factory for ats so that that info can
be transferred.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Neff" <rneff@bbnow.net>
To: "Kynn Bartlett" <kynn-edapta@idyllmtn.com>; "Joe Clark"
<joeclark@joeclark.org>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: December 02, 2000 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: Flash access: Unclear on the concept

i am confused.  seems the author is trying to cover too much and be
things to all people.  however, i think there are several issues here
should be broken apart.

1. Flash can be made accessible.  we did it at the United States Mint
when I
was there.  Flash is not accessible by itself, however it is a great
and product that can be made accessible using a technique to provide

2.  Universal access is a concept - a seed that is being planted. This
take some time to fully implement.  I am very proud that i am on the
edge of a "revolution' to help make the web accessible to everyone.
there is 'buy-in' from the companies to that make browsers to adhere
standards as being developed by the W3C, then not all the
functionality will
be there.

3.  I have seen significant progress made over the years form both the
browser and page authoring side.  The biggest catalyst is the Federal
Government's decision to do something about this.  I am refereeing to
requirements in Section 508.  Hence the State and Local government
needs to
follow and put some requirements into the ADA.

4.  I do agree, while there are not many browsers that support the
functionality, we do have Microsoft, Adobe, and Macromedia's
However, after being on both the government and industry side, web
developers are caught in the middle as they 1) Do not have the page
authoring tools to apply all the requirements to accomplish this, 2)
design for two main browsers and multiple operating systems, 3) Must
educated on how to design web sites for multiple browsers and for
design, and 4) Fight for the funding, resources, training and support
to do
so.  The funding and understanding is more apparent in the government
it is in the commercial and retail world.  There is a huge cost to
test your
development under multiple browsers and this can be a cost to purchase
PCs and maintain the configuration, cost to train everyone on the
browsers and purchase them, cost to train the web developers, business
and retrain new employees.  Therefore the tools must be provided to
rapid application development, rapid design and quality assurance.

5.  The PWD community must organize and show they exist and are an
force to be recognized.  This is still a fragmented audience and the
realization to mobilize is now with e-commerce and call centers.
Until the
PWD community stands up and shows they are a user and economic force
to be
recognized, this will not impact any company's bottom line.

6.  Security and protection of data, for example, Secure Socket Layer
SSL, will require all users to upgrade and this is where the browser
community or you will not be able to access their site.  Because more
more sites are becoming dynamic,  database driven, and putting
under forms via SSL, this is the number one reason why I think the
that the web designer must design for all browsers will not be valid
the road.

7.  Here are my final comments, we are at the leading edge and WE all
improved the world, but the PWD community must stand up and be
because screen readers and many of the methods used do not show up on
company log files as a hit or a significant presence.  Companies
economics and the bottom line and the ability to create new markets,
so PWD
needs to organize. The W3C Web Accessibility Initiative, and some
Organizations and individuals who are in the trenches fighting cannot
do it

DISCLAIMER: My comments are my personal opinions and in no way reflect
views of previous and current employers.

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Kynn Bartlett
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:01 PM
To: Joe Clark; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Flash access: Unclear on the concept

At 3:53 AM +0100 12/2/00, Joe Clark wrote:
>Readers may be interested in my new article over at A List Apart on
>the failures of Macromedia's plans for accessible Flash, namely
>"Flash access: Unclear on the concept."

It struck me as a bit unfair.

It seems to me that blasting companies -because- they've chosen to
make improvements doesn't really encourage them to make positive
steps forward.

Now, I'm not saying that incomplete efforts should be overlooked
in the name of good intentions (just ask the WCAG 1.0 document),
but I think that it's premature to run an attack piece against
Macromedia at this time.

The questions asked in part two are legit and should be asked, but
the assumption that Macromedia is going to screw it up seems pretty
unfounded at this time.  At the very least, let's see what kind of
product they ship after having time to digest these and other

Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>
Received on Sunday, 3 December 2000 12:53:05 UTC

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