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RE: Frames sites.

From: Joe Roeder <Jroeder@nib.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:43:36 -0500
Message-ID: <C039498D996AD1118DAC0060083DB3540279534E@NIB-NT>
To: nir.dagan@econ.upf.es
Cc: WAI I G <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, charlesn@sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au
Hello Nir,
I have followed your discussion on frames and I think I agree with the
essence  of your arguments.  I would like to offer my perspective, which
is that of a totally blind user using a screen reader with voice.
Referring to your recent posting:

	>>This is what I mean by "visual in nature." Frames have
usability >>advantages
	>>only if the user can have a direct multiple *view*.

	JR:  This is where I have a slight disagreement.  With a voice
output screen reader, I am focused on one "window" or frame at a time.
It makes no difference to me if my screen displays 4 windows on the
screen side-by-side or if each window is maximized and displayed one on
top of the other.  I have to focus on only one at a time.  But I can
step horizontally, as you put it, with just an ALT-TAB (for windows) or
a CONTROL-TAB (for frames or dialog pages).  You might say that I have
an "indirect multiple *view".

	The point I want to make is that I can benefit from a frame
structure if it would work like the windows do.  Two things that are
missing with my browser/screen reader (MSIE 3.2/WinVision97 4.1) frames
is something to let me know that I am dealing with a frame structure and
some identification of the frame when I focus on it.  For example, If I
have several apps open but have gotten "lost", I can orient myself with
a screen reader hot key that verbally summarizes what windows are open.
For frames, an equivalent might be to tell me how many frames are
	When I ALT-TAB among apps, my screen reader identifies the app I
am passing or stopping on by verbally giving the title.  For frames, a
sequence number (eg., "frame 1", "frame 2", etc.) might be acceptable
because a "title" might not be that useful (I would probably still have
to read a bit of it to really know if this was a frame I wanted to be
in).  An exception would be the frame that contained the index.  That
would be useful to know.  The suggestion offerred in a different post to
have the browser focus on the changed frame when the link in the index
is clicked strikes me as a really terrific idea.

Joe Roeder
Voice:  (703) 578-6524
FAX:  (703) 998-4217
E-mail:  jroeder@nib.org
Received on Friday, 6 March 1998 14:44:59 UTC

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