Re: CFC - Responses to issues 657, 677, and 685 on text spacing

+1 to Jim's "Exception: Non Latin based languages."

Wayne conducted extensive text spacing research to ensure the metrics
that we specified work correctly for people with low vision in the
English language.

To make sure we get it right internationally, it may be best to wait
for WCAG 2.2  to specify non Latin based language text spacing.

Kindest Regards,
Laura

On 1/15/18, Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu> wrote:
> +1 Alastair.
> ​Given the large variety of non Latin-based languages mentioned that have
> various issues related text spacing, it seems scoping to what we know works
> is reasonable.​
>
> perhaps Modelling on Laura's exception...
>
> Exception: Non Latin based languages.
>
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think we have two issues:
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. Trying to apply a requirement where increased spacing might change
>>    the meaning of the language, or simply not apply.
>>
>>    E.g. looking at Richard Ishida’s script resources [1], there are 9
>>    scripts (languages?) that don’t use space as a word separator, so
>>    word-spacing doesn’t apply (I assume).
>>
>>    2. Is there research to show that increasing spacing as defined in the
>>    SC improves readability for people with low vision.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, looking at the list of scripts in Richard’s list, the term “CJK”
>> seems rather inadequate!
>>
>>
>>
>> I think Andrew’s exception covers the first aspect (does it work in the
>> language), but if the second is also a worry then we should restrict more
>> like Laura’s:
>>
>>
>>
>> “Exception: Content written in script languages such as Chinese,
>> Japanese,
>> and Korean.”
>>
>>
>>
>> (Or include what we know works, so scope to Latin-based languages, but
>> not
>> sure about that.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> 1] https://r12a.github.io/scripts/featurelist/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Laura Carlson
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Andrew, Jason, and all,
>>
>>
>>
>> If it is okay to proceed with having little to no research specific to
>> text spacing and CJK languages, I am happy if we use Andrew's reply.
>>
>> If it is not okay, perhaps we could go with something like the exemption
>> version that I previously drafted:
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_
>> Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues&oldid=9083#657_and_677
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindest Regards,
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2018 7:00 AM, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>>
>> -1
>> The response does not meet the need for the internationalization concerns
>> to be properly considered, reviewed and addressed before entering CR.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Makoto UEKI - Infoaxia, Inc. [mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 7:39 AM
>> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> Subject: Re: CFC - Responses to issues 657, 677, and 685 on text spacing
>>
>> -1 for now.
>>
>> I'm not sure if the Exception addressed especially #657 for the vertical
>> text mode as line/paragraph/letter spacing can be used.
>>
>> Can we say that 1.5 times for line spacing, 2 times for paragraph
>> spacing,
>> and 0.12 times for letter spacing are valid for text written in vertical
>> mode?
>>
>> Another question I still have is whether these values are valid for text
>> written in CJK and Arabic or not (Do we have basis?).
>>
>> I'm looking for the research-based basis for these questions, but I
>> haven't found them yet.
>>
>> - Makoto
>>
>>
>>
>> 2018-01-15 13:25 GMT+09:00 Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>:
>> > Call For Consensus — ends Tuesday January 16th at 11:59pm Boston time.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The Working Group has discussed responses to the following issues:
>> >
>> > 657: When vertical text mode, are SC 1.4.8/1.4.12 applicable as they
>> > are?
>> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
>> > ub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F657&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%
>> > 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
>> > 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=pRIF8b0gPi9i8SdkWacV8xAzVwt7h%2FNL%
>> > 2BTCySf%2BIoUc%3D&reserved=0)
>> >
>> > 677: Letter/Word spacing for CJK languages - SC 1.4.12 Text Spacing
>> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
>> > ub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F677&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%
>> > 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
>> > 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=TFCViVWYCSmnMEuSTLhAPFJGEY7j0p17GCy
>> > z2vQEuxE%3D&reserved=0)
>> >
>> > 685: Internationalization implications of 1.4.12
>> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
>> > ub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F685&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%
>> > 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
>> > 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=mjtPIkAZh8jtU0EQsOMob7tQAl43RNYlKMQ
>> > 8ykp6Mnc%3D&reserved=0)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Response to Issue 657/677/685:
>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w
>> > 3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDraft_Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues%23657_and_6
>> > 77_and_685&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d5
>> > 5c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C6365161680141682
>> > 88&sdata=A5LWdUAqrRnauiAMj43LRnxSyd9QiNZ0AmwY2tOBrP4%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The changes to the SC are implemented in this pull request:
>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithu
>> > b.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fpull%2F729&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cd
>> > d585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0
>> > %7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=Pe0a9A4URCC%2FxRTL3U21ix6jw3h7wJnd0K5b
>> > FheZ2to%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > The changed SC can be viewed here:
>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frawgit
>> > .com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissue657%2Fguidelines%2Findex.html%23text-spacin
>> > g&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%
>> > 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=
>> > tk1MZ3kmfcVEXTpMsbf8NEzxr61aXC6trCiz3N8h35M%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have
>> > not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you
>> > “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know
>> > before the CfC deadline.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > AWK
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> >
>> > Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>> >
>> > Adobe
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > akirkpat@adobe.com
>> >
>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitte
>> > r.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d
>> > 08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636516168014
>> > 168288&sdata=Wi6xHRInLyAok6fAKpsBAWZ9vCr61aQt1QgMJAkVQgQ%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson

Received on Tuesday, 16 January 2018 14:46:11 UTC