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Re: "commercial websites that have adopted symbolic based accessibility"

From: Hiroshi Kawamura <hkawa@attglobal.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 01:50:28 +0900
Message-ID: <09d201c76722$15ede650$9ee258d2@X60120G>
To: "Slatin, John M" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, "~:'' ????????????" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>, "lisa" <lisa@ubaccess.com>
Cc: "David MacDonald" <befree@magma.ca>, "Bailey, Bruce" <Bruce.Bailey@ed.gov>, "Loretta Guarino Reid" <lorettaguarino@google.com>, "Sofia Celic" <Sofia.Celic@visionaustralia.org>, "Jan Dekelver" <jan.dekelver@khk.be>, "Chuck Hitchcock" <chitchcock@cast.org>, "Gez Lemon" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>, "Clayton Lewis" <clayton.lewis@colorado.edu>, "Gian Sampson-Wild" <gian@tkh.com.au>, "Keith Smith" <k.smith@bild.org.uk>, "Roberto Scano" <rscano@iwa-italy.org>, "Stephen Shore" <Tumbalaika@aol.com>, "Nancy Ward" <nward@thedesk.info>, "Paul Bowman" <pbowman@gmu.edu>, "John Slatin" <jslatin@mail.utexas.edu>, "Elbert Johns" <ejohns@thearclink.org>, "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, "Michael Cooper" <cooper@w3.org>, "Judy Brewer" <jbrewer@w3.org>, "WCAG" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

Dear All:

Accessing Disneyland is significant for many people in terms of Quality of 
Life. That is the reason why accessibility of their website matters. 
Disneyland need to be responsible to make their site accessible.

Let's think about Early Tsunami Warning System. If you are not able to 
access or comprehend the warning to protect your lives due to 
inaccessibility of the contents, who is responsible for that? It matters for 
everybody in particular for persons with disabilities whose requirements in 
many cases are not met. Just remember the victims of Tsunami in Phuket in 
December 2004. Number of victims of foreign residents was larger than Thai 
victims. Imagine, if you do not know the concept of Tsunami and do not 
understand the language of local people, it may be difficult for you to 
protect your life from Tsunami. The early warning on the website need to be 
accessible and at the same time need to be easy to understand by anybody 
including people with cognitive disabilities and foreign travelers.

WCAG 2.0 or 2.X must give clear guidelines for this end probably in 
collaboration with other international standard bodies to include 
internationally recognized symbols. Is it too ambitious?

Best

Hiroshi
-----------
Hiroshi Kawamura
NRCD Research Institute
and also
DAISY Consortium Board Member
hkawa@attglobal.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Slatin, John M" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
To: "~:'' ????????????" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>; "lisa" 
<lisa@ubaccess.com>
Cc: "David MacDonald" <befree@magma.ca>; "Bailey, Bruce" 
<Bruce.Bailey@ed.gov>; "Loretta Guarino Reid" <lorettaguarino@google.com>; 
"Sofia Celic" <Sofia.Celic@visionaustralia.org>; "Jan Dekelver" 
<jan.dekelver@khk.be>; "Chuck Hitchcock" <chitchcock@cast.org>; "Hiroshi 
Kawamura" <hkawa@rehab.go.jp>; "Gez Lemon" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>; "Clayton 
Lewis" <clayton.lewis@colorado.edu>; "Gian Sampson-Wild" <gian@tkh.com.au>; 
"Keith Smith" <k.smith@bild.org.uk>; "Roberto Scano" <rscano@iwa-italy.org>; 
"Stephen Shore" <Tumbalaika@aol.com>; "Nancy Ward" <nward@thedesk.info>; 
"Paul Bowman" <pbowman@gmu.edu>; "John Slatin" <jslatin@mail.utexas.edu>; 
"Elbert Johns" <ejohns@thearclink.org>; "Gregg Vanderheiden" 
<gv@trace.wisc.edu>; "Michael Cooper" <cooper@w3.org>; "Judy Brewer" 
<jbrewer@w3.org>; "WCAG" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: RE: "commercial websites that have adopted symbolic based 
accessibility"


I would find it very helpful if someone would describe at least some of the 
icons used on the Disney site or Yahooligans, etc. I'm familiar with icons 
like those for Home and Mail, etc., and with many international road signs, 
but I have no way to tell which ones may be used on the Disney site.

The Disney page is now almost entirely Flash. Audio plays automatically, 
which overwhelms my screen reader, but if I listen really really hard while 
I use the downArrow to go down the page one line at a time, I hear what I've 
transcribed in the JAWS transcript below. Note that JAWS puts the word 
"button" befor each of the numbers below. But I can't access them and I 
don't know what they are.

Jonathan, you said we shouldn't talk about these sites in terms of full WAI 
accessibility.

I disagree. That is exactly what we have to do.

<JAWS transcript>
Disney.com | The Official Home Page For All Things Disney -

hit frame

hit frame end

ads frame

ads frame end

Flash movie start
2
4
6
8
10
16
18
Disney For You
21
23
Search Disney.com
27
31
32
33
Find Disney Movies, TV, Games, and more!
Preschool
37
Boys
You're Watching
41
Girls
45
Caffeine Patch Exclusive
Kids & Teens
Hot Games
50
Families
53
55
Visit the site
Disney Fans
58
62
What's New in Games
66
68
69
70
71
Playlist
74
Caffeine Patch Exclusive
78
Check out this exclusive scene from Meet The Robinsons!
Find More Games
83
85
What's New in Music
87
88
91
94
96
97
100
101
103
105
106
107
108
109
110
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
120
Make Us Your Homepage  |   Switch to Disney Online Lite   Site Map  | 
FAQ/Help  |  Your Account  |  Guest Services   Privacy Policy/Your 
California Privacy Rights  |  Terms of Use  |  Internet Safety 
International Sites  |  Corporate Info  |  Legal Notices  |  More Disney 
Sites    Disney. All rights reserved.
124
125
126
Flash movie end
</JAWS transcript>


"Good design is accessible design."

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524
email john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu
Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility



-----Original Message-----
From: j.chetwynd@btinternet.com [mailto:j.chetwynd@btinternet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:04 AM
To: lisa
Cc: 'David MacDonald'; 'Bailey, Bruce'; 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Sofia 
Celic'; 'Jan Dekelver'; 'Chuck Hitchcock'; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Gez Lemon'; 
'Clayton Lewis'; 'Gian Sampson-Wild'; 'Keith Smith'; 'Roberto Scano'; 
'Stephen Shore'; 'Nancy Ward'; 'Paul Bowman'; 'John Slatin'; 'Elbert Johns'; 
'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'Michael Cooper'; 'Judy Brewer'; 'WCAG'
Subject: "commercial websites that have adopted symbolic based 
accessibility"


"commercial websites that have adopted symbolic based accessibility"

Lisa,

many symbols work across all known languages, eg toilet signs, miming
thirsty, or hungry etc

symbols as used for web navigation, apart from peepo on commercial
websites:

well apart from the obvious and ubiquitous home, email, video and
other icons...

disney, bbc, yahoo and slashdot enough?
there are plenty more and better examples....
won't comment on their WAI accessibility, as that could embarrass
both parties ~:"

http://home.disney.go.com/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/cartoons/
  yahooligans.com for many years was a fully iconised portal 
http://kids.yahoo.com/news is their current beta for the news slashdot.org 
was another. icons are still used, but no longer on the
navigation bar...

best wishes

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 15 Mar 2007, at 08:55, lisa wrote:


Hi David

This discussion has proved my point. That it is not a lack of
research that
is the primary problem for accessibility for cognitive disabilities, but 
other factors - such as adoptability, interest "appropriateness" etc..

It is essential that people do not think that following WCAG is the best 
they can do for these communities.

Look  at the work of WAACI  and http://www.handicom.nl/  and 
http://peepo.com/  and ld-web.org. That will help you get an idea of
what is
doable - today.

  WCAG does not contain guidelines that will help you achieve this
type of
accessibility.

In terms of commercial websites that have adopted symbolic based 
accessibility - no I do not know of any. There is no legislation to
drive
them, and the discrimination against these groups are huge.

BY the way, the 2001 email was just a sample. I spent years writing and 
writing test criteria's and guidelines for accessibility for cognitive 
disabilities. I wrote a CSS techniques, and an RDF techniques
document and
rewrote the success criteria a bunch of times. We need to view the
archives
to glean the different approaches and suggestions from over the years, 
Research existing successes and methodologies, perform a gap analysis 
etc.....

A few sticky plasters is not what is needed. We as standard writers know 
that. We need a consistent integrated roadmap for access for cognitive 
disabilities. We have had years to do it but we decided to make it low 
priority, and these techniques came of the to do list until after
last call.
We can not now claim that we did the best we could.

All the best
Lisa




-----Original Message-----
From: David MacDonald [mailto:befree@magma.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:04 PM
To: 'Bailey, Bruce'; 'lisa'; 'j.chetwynd'
Cc: 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Sofia Celic'; 'Jan Dekelver'; 'Chuck 
Hitchcock'; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Gez Lemon'; 'Clayton Lewis'; 'Gian 
Sampson-Wild'; 'Keith Smith'; 'Roberto Scano'; 'Stephen Shore'; 'Nancy 
Ward'; 'Paul Bowman'; 'John Slatin'; 'Elbert Johns'; 'Gregg
Vanderheiden';
'Michael Cooper'; 'Judy Brewer'; 'WCAG'
Subject: RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive,
learning, and
language disabilities

>>> For an example of a government site that is oriented towards people
>>> with
cognitive disabilities:The Medicaid Reference Desk http://thedesk.info/

A prime feature for a cognitive person would be to be able to ask a 
question, I would say. But the link to the "ask question" page gives
a 404
link error. And it appears to have been like that since 2002.

On the home page, the additional info summaries above the link list
do not
work for keyboard users, only for mouse users.

Any page that is accessed from the home page comes up in a tiny
window with
all the Chrome from the browser. A cognitive person can't find the back 
button. Having the opened window tiny like that means that there are
other
visible windows on the computer screen, which would be confusing for
many
people with cognitive disabilities.

David MacDonald

access empowers people...
         ...barriers disable them...

www.eramp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf
Of Bailey, Bruce
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:56 AM
To: David MacDonald; lisa; j.chetwynd
Cc: Loretta Guarino Reid; Sofia Celic; Jan Dekelver; Chuck Hitchcock; 
Hiroshi Kawamura; Gez Lemon; Clayton Lewis; Gian Sampson-Wild; Keith
Smith;
Roberto Scano; Stephen Shore; Nancy Ward; Paul Bowman; John Slatin;
Elbert
Johns; Gregg Vanderheiden; Michael Cooper; Judy Brewer; WCAG
Subject: RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive,
learning, and
language disabilities


For an example of a government site that is oriented towards people with 
cognitive disabilities: The Medicaid Reference Desk http://thedesk.info/

Nancy Ward and Clayton Lewis have been particularly involved with that 
project.  I did not find concept maps however.

The claim to Triple A status (with a link to CAST no less) is troubling.

P.S.:  Follows is a link to the HTML version of the PDF mentioned in
Lisa's
post from 2001.
Telecommunications Problems and Design Strategies for People with
Cognitive
Disabilities http://www.wid.org/archives/telecom/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of David MacDonald
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:23 AM
> To: 'lisa'; '"~:'' ????????????"'
> Cc: 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Sofia Celic'; 'Jan Dekelver'; 'Chuck
> Hitchcock'; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Gez Lemon'; 'Clayton Lewis'; 'Gian
> Sampson-Wild'; 'Keith Smith'; 'Roberto Scano'; 'Stephen Shore'; 'Nancy
> Ward'; 'Paul Bowman'; 'John Slatin'; 'Elbert Johns'; 'Gregg
> Vanderheiden'; 'Michael Cooper'; 'Judy Brewer'; 'WCAG'
> Subject: RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning,
> and language disabilities
>
> Hi Lisa
>
> Can you provide a link to a successfully implemented concept map on a
> commercial (or private site)? I would like to see one in use. Thanks.

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Received on Thursday, 15 March 2007 16:51:23 GMT

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