W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > January to March 2007

RE: Not described in words

From: Slatin, John M <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:50:32 -0600
Message-ID: <6EED8F7006A883459D4818686BCE3B3B05A68E66@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu>
To: "Loretta Guarino Reid" <lorettaguarino@google.com>, "Bailey, Bruce" <Bruce.Bailey@ed.gov>
Cc: "WCAG" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

I think that the disagreement over "discerned textually" actually goes
deeper than an argument about the definition of "discerned."

I think it may stem from confusion between *input* and *output*. SC
2.1.1 is about *input*, and I don't understand what it would mean to say
that "input can be discerned textually." Discernment is something humans
do, as in the definitions Bruce provided below. 

Output, on the other hand, could be discerned textually if it were
rendered as (or accompanied by) text.

The above doesn't address the point about timing. Maybe the following
will help.

According to WordNet
(http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o
3=&s=analogue_,

Analog (also spelled analogue)=
<quote>
 (of a circuit or device having an output that is proportional to the
input) "analogue device"; "linear amplifier" 
</quote>

Maybe this means that pressure and duration are bult into the concept of
analog input.

If we're concerned that people may not know what analog input means,
maybe we can remove it from the SC and replace it with something like:

<proposed>
... Except where analog input is required-- that is, when output must be
directly proportional to the input"
</proposed>

And, since that's still hard to understand, let's be sure the HTM doc
explains it well and includes good examples (haven't looked at it
recently).

John

"Good design is accessible design."

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director 
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin 
FAC 248C 
1 University Station G9600 
Austin, TX 78712 
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 
email john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu
Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility 



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Loretta Guarino Reid
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:18 AM
To: Bailey, Bruce
Cc: WCAG
Subject: Re: Not described in words



> I respectfully suggest that the timing references be removed from SC 
> 2.1.1.  This would leave it as:
>
> All functionality of the content is operable through a keyboard 
> interface, except where the underlying task requires analog input.

Bruce, we would need to think this through more carefully, since
removing the reference to timing means that keyboard operations that
depend upon the amount of time that a key is held down would be
permitted, and we know that this introduces accessibility problems for
some people.
>
> > 4) As per the last phone call, "Discern" is the wrong word in any 
> > case.
>
> As per the last phone call, I respectfully disagree. <blockquote>
> dis*cern : to separate, distinguish between; 2: to recognize or
identify as separate and distinct : discriminate <discern right from
wrong>; 3: to come to know or recognize mentally <unable to discern his
motives>; intransitive verb: to understand the difference
> </blockquote>

I agree with Gregg on this. Let's plug these different definitions into
the phrase "discern textually": 1. to separate or distinguish textually
between 2. to recognize textually or identify textually as separate and
distinct: to discriminate textually
3. to come to know textually or recognize textually mentally; to
understand the difference textually

The verbs here are all mental processes, and I can't combine them with
"textually" in any way that makes sense. I know that the phase has
captured a concept that is clear in your mind, but the phrase isn't
communicating that concept to me.

Loretta
Received on Thursday, 8 March 2007 15:50:42 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:47:49 GMT