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[techs] Table Summary Tests (111, 112, 113, 114, 203)

From: Mirabella, Mathew J <Mathew.Mirabella@team.telstra.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:39:53 +1000
Message-ID: <73388857A695D31197EF00508B08F29816655513@ntmsg0131.corpmail.telstra.com.au>
To: "w3c-wai-gl list" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>


How about this:

<table summary="describe structure etc.">
  <caption><h2>table caption</h2></caption>
  ...
</table>

With this example, there is no on-screen redundancy of the caption text
as it is given only once.  In Jaws, pressing t will jump to this table,
but pressing h will move to the caption in the table as well as it will
be included in the headings list.

I can't remember if putting hx inside caption is invalid or not... 

I agree with the notion that title is problematic as a table attribute
describing the table as it results in annoying tooltips for some common
user agents.



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2005 4:44 AM
To: Johannes Koch; WAI-GL
Subject: RE: [techs] Table Summary Tests (111, 112, 113, 114, 203)


Johannes wrote:

<blockquote>
Some people think, that it's better to have a hx element preceding the 
table because they can be jumped to by several ATs. With a need to add a

caption, it would be like

<h2>table caption</h2>
<table>
   <caption>table caption</caption>
   ...
</blockquote>

Johannes is right to point out the potential for annoying redundancy
here, especially if the body text also contains a full
description/explanation of the table.

I'm not sure about Window-Eyes, HAL, or other screen readers, but with
JAWS the user can jump directly to any table on the page by pressing the
letter "t".  If the table has a <caption> element, JAWS speaks the
caption; it will also speak the summary if it's present.  

Pressing the "t" would cause JAWS to bypass the H<x> element in the
example above.

Again, I'm not certain how other screen readers would handle this.

John
"Good design is accessible design."

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director 
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin 
FAC 248C 
1 University Station G9600 
Austin, TX 78712 
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu 
Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility 



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Johannes Koch
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:08 PM
To: WAI-GL
Subject: Re: [techs] Table Summary Tests (111, 112, 113, 114, 203)



Chris Ridpath wrote:

> Having the table description explicitly associated with the table 
> means
> it can be used even if the table is disassociated with the body
content.

I see your point.

> Even if the table is fully described within the document content I 
> don't
> think it would hurt to duplicate a short portion of the description 
> within the summary, caption or title.

Some people think, that it's better to have a hx element preceding the 
table because they can be jumped to by several ATs. With a need to add a

caption, it would be like

<h2>table caption</h2>
<table>
   <caption>table caption</caption>
   ...
</table>
-- 
Johannes Koch
In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
                             (Te Deum, 4th cent.)
Received on Thursday, 18 August 2005 02:44:01 GMT

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