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RE: [techs] Alt Text Tests 192 and 195

From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:50:28 -0600
Message-ID: <6EED8F7006A883459D4818686BCE3B3B752093@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu>
To: "Michael Cooper" <michaelc@watchfire.com>, "WAI WCAG List" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

Michael Cooper wrote:
<blockquote>
As I understand things, text alternatives / labels for INPUTs come from
different sources:

* INPUT type of "image" gets its label from the "alt" attribute
* INPUT type of "submit" or "reset" gets its label from the "value"
attribute
* INPUT type of "hidden" does not require a label
* INPUT type of anything else gets its label from a LABEL element
* The "title" attribute can be used on any of these but is not the
primary label mechanism.

The HTML DTD is a little fluid / vague about this because of the limited
expressiveness of DTDs, but I understand this to be the intent of the
authors of the HTML spec. Our techniques and test files should enforce
the above mechanisms for labeling INPUT elements, i.e., we don't accept
"value" for labeling purposes on an image submit button and we don't
accept "alt" for labeling purposes on a standard submit or reset button.
Last time I tested this I verified that this is what user agents are
expecting to see. 
</blockquote>

Thanks, Michael. This is very helpful.

1. I agree that the alt attribute is the correct labeling mechanism for
input of type="image". The alt text must satisfy Guideline 1.1 L1
success criteria
2. I agree that the value attribute is the correct labeling mechanism
for input of type="submit" and type="reset"
3. I agree that input of type="hidden" does not require (and should not
have) a label.
4. I agree that a label element is the correct labeling mechanism for
input of type=text, radio, or checkbox.

5. I agree that the title attribute is not generally considered the
*primary* mechanism for labeling input elements of type text, radio, and
checkbox. But I think we should accept use of title as a conforming
technique, though perhaps with a user check to confirm that there's no
available screen text that would serve the purpose as well or better if
tagged as a label for the input. The title attribute may also be
appropriate in some cases for select elements.

John



I

"Good design is accessible design."

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director 
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin 
FAC 248C 
1 University Station G9600 
Austin, TX 78712 
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu 
Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility 



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Cooper
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 1:17 PM
To: WAI WCAG List
Subject: RE: [techs] Alt Text Tests 192 and 195



I wonder if a confusing thing about the INPUT element is confusing the
discussion a little bit.

As I understand things, text alternatives / labels for INPUTs come from
different sources:

* INPUT type of "image" gets its label from the "alt" attribute
* INPUT type of "submit" or "reset" gets its label from the "value"
attribute
* INPUT type of "hidden" does not require a label
* INPUT type of anything else gets its label from a LABEL element
* The "title" attribute can be used on any of these but is not the
primary label mechanism.

The HTML DTD is a little fluid / vague about this because of the limited
expressiveness of DTDs, but I understand this to be the intent of the
authors of the HTML spec. Our techniques and test files should enforce
the above mechanisms for labeling INPUT elements, i.e., we don't accept
"value" for labeling purposes on an image submit button and we don't
accept "alt" for labeling purposes on a standard submit or reset button.
Last time I tested this I verified that this is what user agents are
expecting to see. [1] 

Also, user agents do supply a default label if the label is not
provided. In the same test I just mentioned I observed this with every
user agent tested, both old and new, though I admit it was only on a
Windows system and I wasn't specifically looking for this at that time.
Therefore I consider it an open question whether image submit, standard
submit, and reset buttons require labels. My proposal would be that they
not be required, but if provided they be required to pass quality tests.
Then, we argue about what the quality tests are.

Michael

[1] http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=273

> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of John M Slatin
> Sent: January 28, 2005 10:22 AM
> To: Chris Ridpath; Gregg Vanderheiden; WAI WCAG List
> Subject: RE: [techs] Alt Text Tests 192 and 195
> 
> 
> 
> Chirs wrote:
> <blockquote>
> OK. Test 192 "don't label your submit buttons as 'submit'" is out.
> 
> Just to be clear - the Alt text for images used as form submit buttons

> is
> *not* covered under the guidelines. Guideline 1.1, L1, SC1
> [1] does not
> apply to form submit button images. Correct?
> 
> </blockquote>
> 
> I assume Gregg's argument against this test is that according to the 
> HTML 4.01 spec alt is optional for the input element.  But the URI 
> attribute still specifies non-text contnet, which is covered under 1.1

> and the definition of non-text content that Wendy proposed.
> 
> So... Maybe there's a way around this: *if* an input of type image
> *does* have an alt attribute, then the contents of that attribute have

> to satisfy 1.1.  If the input does *not* have an alt attribute, then 
> the value attribute must serve identify the purpose of the input.
>  "Submit"
> would be acceptable, though it would be nice (i.e., best 
> practice) to be
> more descriptive.  Maybe Chris' wording would work-- something about
> identifying the purpose of the *form* as I recall?
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Good design is accessible design."
> John Slatin, Ph.D.
> Director, Accessibility Institute
> University of Texas at Austin
> FAC 248C
> 1 University Station G9600
> Austin, TX 78712
> ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524
> email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
> web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On 
> Behalf Of Chris Ridpath
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:35 am
> To: Gregg Vanderheiden; 'WAI WCAG List'
> Subject: Re: [techs] Alt Text Tests 192 and 195
> 
> 
> 
> Chris wrote:
> > But is there anything in the guidelines that covers the
> text used in
> > form submit buttons?
> >
> 
> Gregg replied:
> > Nope I don't think there is.
> > So I don't think we can have a test of it.
> 
> OK. Test 192 "don't label your submit buttons as 'submit'" is out.
> 
> Just to be clear - the Alt text for images used as form submit buttons

> is
> *not* covered under the guidelines. Guideline 1.1, L1, SC1
> [1] does not
> apply to form submit button images. Correct?
> 
> Chris
> 
> [1] For all non-text content that is functional, such as
> graphical links
> or buttons, text alternatives identify the purpose or function of the
> non-text content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Saturday, 29 January 2005 18:50:35 GMT

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